End Game Scoring Rules

[CrazyCarl461]

Originally Posted by dodar

if you are on TOP of the platform you are therefore over the plane of the platform

I agree with this interpretation and I think you will find that this is what the GDC intended. A plane is a feature with zero thickness. The only way to not be above it is to either be below it or intersecting it. Since the plane is exactly lined up with the surface of the platform, the only way to intersect it would be to intersect the plastic itself.

[GoSparx]

Originally Posted by CrazyCarl461

I agree with this interpretation and I think you will find that this is what the GDC intended. A plane is a feature with zero thickness. The only way to not be above it is to either be below it or intersecting it. Since the plane is exactly lined up with the surface of the platform, the only way to intersect it would be to intersect the plastic itself.

I do find it a little odd that they would design a field with a platform that has no purpose for scoring what so ever. I would, however like to see a clarification on this topic. I would just hate to design a robot feature (like be able to climb on to the platform) that could not be used due to a rule.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by dodar

ELEVATED: A ROBOT that is completely above the plane of the PLATFORM and in contact with the TOWER shall be considered ELEVATED.

if you are on TOP of the platform you are therefore over the plane of the platform

While I believe this is the way that the GDC will interpret this, They could determine that 'ON' is not 'above' the plane.

We'll just have to wait 'til tomorrow.

[CrazyCarl461]

People that are here looking for an absolute clarification obviously know they won't be able to get it here. Luckily it is still early in the season so you should feel free to toss around platform bot ideas without worrying about too much of a commitment. The GDC is going to rule that being on the platform is also being above it (unless they were bad at geometry in high school), but.. don't take my word for it - ask. You will know for sure very soon and will already have your snazzy designs ready

[engunneer]

I think the GDC intended for a 'platform sitter' to be counted as elevated. IT's no small task. The Q&A will confirm this in a few days.

For those bringing up the animation, they also showed a robot retreating into the tunnel at the endgame, but that isn't worth anything (Though it would be cool if that was a 1 point bonus, as long as you are completely inside, which isn't possible for a full 28x38 robot)

[TomH]

Expect that in any case this is going to be something of importance (as in that it will be reworded or redefined) because it is generally confusing of what it means. A plane is something with no thickness so if something is in contact with the top of the plane, it is above the plane in theory. This topic is a hot one, and expect that either it has by now have a more defined reasoning or that it is more along the lines of going towards the idea that being on the platform is a way to score. It may just be that you have to be in contact with one of the steel columns to be counted as elevated.

[hotapay42]

hey guess what?

at an atomic level, the atoms/molecules of rubber/plastic/whatever repel each other, so as to not fuse and combine with whatever they touch

therefore, it IS above the platform, so you should calm down about it and get on with your robot

p.s. this goes for all molecules; body parts too: i typed all of this without actually touching the keyboard. ponder that!

[rsegrest]

Ok, not about elevating but is about end game scoring and before you say 'look in the manual' we already have...four times...so here's the question (which I have also posted at the FIRST forums)...

In the animation Dave says that during the final 20 seconds the robots..."will move toward their platform"...and in the animation the bots ALL move to their platforms, in the game manual the only reference to scoring in the final 20 seconds is regarding elevation of the bots...SO

Can bots score goals with the balls during the final 20 seconds of the game?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by rsegrest

Ok, not about elevating but is about end game scoring and before you say 'look in the manual' we already have...four times...so here's the question (which I have also posted at the FIRST forums)...

In the animation Dave says that during the final 20 seconds the robots..."will move toward their platform"...and in the animation the bots ALL move to their platforms, in the game manual the only reference to scoring in the final 20 seconds is regarding elevation of the bots...SO

Can bots score goals with the balls during the final 20 seconds of the game?

There is nothing whatsoever in the rules restricting robot motion in the Finale, aside from not being able to touch the opponent's tower and the rule on only one robot in the opponent's zone. Whether you think it's more advantageous to hang or to score is up to you.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by hotapay42

hey guess what?

at an atomic level, the atoms/molecules of rubber/plastic/whatever repel each other, so as to not fuse and combine with whatever they touch

therefore, it IS above the platform, so you should calm your AIDS about it and get on with your robot

p.s. this goes for all molecules; body parts too: i typed all of this without actually touching the keyboard. ponder that!

All sarcasm aside... Traditionally, "not touching" in FRC has always been measured with the "sheet of paper test". If a sheet of paper can be slid between the two parts not touching, then they are not in contact.

Please don't compare confusion and stress with life threatening diseases.

[EricH]

And, to add to what Chris is saying, the official definition is "above the plane". The question is, is a robot that is on top of the platform above the plane? I can think of a situation (admittedly, it's kind of improbable) where it could be ruled to not be, despite having nothing hanging down, if the GDC doesn't come out and say that being on top of the platform is above the plane.

The situation I'm thinking of? The platform deforms, and a robot's wheels wind up in a dip that goes below the normal level. Like I say, that's improbable, but it could happen.

[TomH]

The idea of the "is touching the base is on top of the base" (base being evelated platform) is still under fire weither it is legal or not. I have been told multiple times that "I should not trust what the video says" although that video will be shown to many spectators that may think that being on the elevated platform is above. Most likely the rule will be reworded, expectedly towards the idea that being on the platform is considered above if your are touching a steel column (column part may not be neccesary). As far as I am aware, we are trying to get a response from the Q&A to see weither or not that is legal. Hope to have some more info later if it is not brought up on here by someone else.

[rsegrest]

Thanks for the reply. Seems you're on the same page as the GDC:

"Today, 12:26 AM
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Re: Can goals be scored during finale

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There is no rule that would prohibit ROBOTS from scoring during the FINALE PERIOD. "

[dodar]

just for clarification, if you were to want to still score as your opponents attempted to hang or do whatever they wanted in the last 20 seconds, are you still allowed in their zone to retreive balls?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dodar

just for clarification, if you were to want to still score as your opponents attempted to hang or do whatever they wanted in the last 20 seconds, are you still allowed in their zone to retreive balls?

Provided that you go in there with only one robot and don't touch the tower, I don't see anything against it.