Hearding VS Possession

[Stevenof2619]

The FIRST fact sheet on the game reads: "Robots may not possess more than one ball at a time, but they may herd and kick multiple balls at a time." However, there is no mention of the definition of "Herding".

Rule G43 in section 7 of the FIRST Robotics Competition Manual reads: "ROBOTS may POSSESS only one BALL at a time. Violation: PENALTY" But said rule makes no mention of "Herding".

So, we politely request a more detailed definition of herding, and how it differs from possession.

[Kage]

I think posession would be more like if you turn your robot, the ball will follow the robot slightly...though I cannot see many ways to do that effectivey with all of the rules...

I think herding was placed in there to prevent penalties, or prevent confusion when robots simply drive around and just so happen to push more then one ball...

[EricH]

Herding is never defined or mentioned in Section 7 of the Manual.

Presumably, the intention is that if you bulldoze through a pile of soccer balls that are still scattering after coming off the return while you've got one in possession, and they scatter more, you don't get penalized.

I am not on the GDC, however, and I think this would be a good one to ask the Q&A.

[skimoose]

Possession is clearly defined. If the robot turns or reverses direction and the ball turns or reverses with the robot, the ball is in possession. One ball possession at a time.

Herding in previous years was also clearly defined as pushing balls without actually possessing them. If the robot turns or reverses direction the balls will continue in their original direction. Remember objects in motion tend to remain in motion unless acted on by other forces...

Think of herding as a bulldozer or a even a bucket loader that's only pushing balls. The bucket loader may help with small turning changes, but not if the loader reverses direction.

Again, as always get the official answer on the FIRST Q&A Forum. Our answers, while based on current or past facts, are NOT the official answer. The Q&A forum opens tomorrow. Have your team contact ask for a specific definition of herding from the GDC.

[sdcantrell56]

I am particularly interested in the ruling on this. Based on the definition of possession which says that to be in possession the ball must move relative to the robot aka when you back up the ball goes with you then herding 2 balls at once even if actively pushing them is not possessing 2 balls.

[google]

It seems like FIRST is making it so each robot can herd as many as they want, but until Q&A comes out we have no way of figuring it out for sure.

Does anyone know when the Q&A Forums start up?

Thanks,

Todd

[EricH]

Originally Posted by google

It seems like FIRST is making it so each robot can herd as many as they want, but until Q&A comes out we have no way of figuring it out for sure.

Does anyone know when the Q&A Forums start up?

Thanks,

Todd

Tomorrow, at noon EST. Expect to be joined by several dozen other people asking questions right at that time...

[Kage]

Im trying to invision how you could "posess" a ball...

since the ball can only go in maximum 3 inches into your frame...
and you can only extend beyond the frame by that 2 and a half or so inches to the bumper perimeter for only 2 seconds...

The only way that I can see "posessing" a ball is with some sort of suction cup device...

[MrForbes]

or you could look at videos of smaller soccer playing robots and see the magic trick

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by Kage

Im trying to invision how you could "posess" a ball...

since the ball can only go in maximum 3 inches into your frame...
and you can only extend beyond the frame by that 2 and a half or so inches to the bumper perimeter for only 2 seconds...

The only way that I can see "posessing" a ball is with some sort of suction cup device...

I can think of 3 or 4 ways to posess a ball, and they've all been discussed in various threads. Give it some more thought (its more fun to come up with it on your own than just be told!)

[Locke64]

Originally Posted by Kage

Im trying to invision how you could "posess" a ball...

since the ball can only go in maximum 3 inches into your frame...
and you can only extend beyond the frame by that 2 and a half or so inches to the bumper perimeter for only 2 seconds...

The only way that I can see "posessing" a ball is with some sort of suction cup device...

This is exactly what I was thinking. If you're driving straight you could posess it, but when you turn it would roll out. That could make aiming shots very difficult.

[star_lancer]

Originally Posted by Locke64

This is exactly what I was thinking. If you're driving straight you could posess it, but when you turn it would roll out. That could make aiming shots very difficult.

Exactly why my team is using omni-wheels. The design would allow us to pivot around the ball to line up the shot. Also, all that maneuverability will be handy for defending.