Suction as a method for possessing balls

[Nick Rixford]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Sounds like it's legal, though I have only seen one good suction device in FIRST (1771 in 2008) and video of several bad suction devices.

well i believe that it is legal...the only problem i would really have is trying to get it past the bumps if the robot cant fit through the tunnel, isnt it a penalty for a robot picking up a ball?

[robself705]

As long as the ball stays on the ground it is considered POSSESION which is perfectly legal. If the ball comes off the ground that is considered HOLDING which is a penalty.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by robself705

As long as the ball stays on the ground it is considered POSSESION which is perfectly legal. If the ball comes off the ground that is considered HOLDING which is a penalty.

the key is that any ball on the ground can be in possession of the robot.
Any ball OFF the ground and in possession would be CARRIED... that is a penalty.
Carrying can occur ANYWHERE on the robot... the key is that the ball MUST stay in contact with the ground.

Any vacuum system would have to be designed to keep the ball on the ground...

[Taylor]

So a robot that is controlling a ball via suction goes over a bump. At some point, that ball is going to lose contact with the ground. Would this be a carry?
edit: I realize this should be an official Q&A but I'd like to see what you fine folks think.

[sdcantrell56]

Originally Posted by Taylor

So a robot that is controlling a ball via suction goes over a bump. At some point, that ball is going to lose contact with the ground. Would this be a carry?
edit: I realize this should be an official Q&A but I'd like to see what you fine folks think.

How would this not be a penalty? The rules explicitly state you cant be in control of a ball thats not in contact with the ground.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by sdcantrell56

How would this not be a penalty?

It's not intentional, and probably momentary. It's like having the ball bounce off your hand in soccer--the refs probably won't call that, especially if you don't make any move to control the ball or your hand is against your body, but they can if they think it's intentional on your part.

Yes, definitely one for Q&A.

[sdcantrell56]

Originally Posted by EricH

It's not intentional, and probably momentary. It's like having the ball bounce off your hand in soccer--the refs probably won't call that, especially if you don't make any move to control the ball or your hand is against your body, but they can if they think it's intentional on your part.

Yes, definitely one for Q&A.

IDK the fact that you know you designed your robot so that it violates that rule whenever you go over a bump sounds pretty intentional. I agree its definitely not an easy thing to work around but so far it seems pretty explicit.

[Chexposito]

in overdrive 1986 (Team Titanium) used a suction cup to move the track balls, it worked extremely well compared to initial thoughts.

[sami9145]

Suction... hadnt thought about that yet but it seems fun!

to answer the bump problem... as long as the vaccuum suction is turned off when you go over the bump so its not holding the ball would it still be possession if it "happened" to go over the bump with you even tho you had no hold on it at that time?

i will put this idea to my team tho >.>

[Analog]

Suction may work, but it seem that the ball needs to drag on the ground, and not roll.

[Are Jay]

I don't see why using a suction method would be illegal. But like others have said, it doesn't seem like it would be the most efficient way to hold a ball.

[Stephen of REX]

My team has been considering this option, and our tests with a shop vac proved sufficient for further investigation. But what to use for suction? I guess I would use a house vacuum's fan attached to a Fisher Price motor?

[GaryVoshol]

At least the field includes the bumps. If you can manage to keep the ball in contact with the carpet, no penalty. But I bet that ends up being difficult.

6.2.1 The FIELD
The playing FIELD for Breakaway is a 27-foot by 54-foot carpeted area, bounded by two ALLIANCE WALLS and a Guardrail System. The FIELD is covered with carpet (S&S Mills Sequoia-20 ”scotch pine green,” “polar express blue,” and “capitol red”). The FIELD includes two BUMPS that divide the FIELD into three regions (the RED ZONE, the MIDFIELD, and the BLUE ZONE). A 2-inch wide white CENTER LINE runs down the center of the FIELD.

[shortone1320]

we tried this method today with success, it was able to hold the ball as it slid along the carpet. it is a viable option for maintaining control.
good luck all!
-Rich Little

[Nick Rixford]

Originally Posted by shortone1320

we tried this method today with success, it was able to hold the ball as it slid along the carpet. it is a viable option for maintaining control.
good luck all!
-Rich Little

dude epic win XD were gonna post the video on youtube, it was strong, but as said, if the ball comes off the ground when going over a ramp it will be considered a penalty...which is why they have the tunnels XD and if a team was smart ehy would have a piston or some sort of way to hit the ball...