Breakaway Discussion

[mathking]

Mike is correct that the main benefit of the extra point is to knock three teams down from 90 to 31 points, since you would only gain 1 point.

However, playing for the tie is a very difficult proposition. First off, you likely won't know for sure who penalties are on. Suppose you know that one penalty has been called, but are not sure who it is called on. Or even worse, what if there are 5 or 7 or some other fairly large odd number of penalties. You know for sure that a tie in points scored will not end up being a tie, but you aren't sure which team is behind. If you do not attempt to score a couple more for yourself, you risk losing out on a lot of points.

We should also remember that this is a robotics competition. It is not going to be easy to score one at a time, so alliances which are cooperating will probably just try to score a bunch of balls in the first half of the game and then equalize later. It may be difficult to insure a tie at this point. Say its 25 - 24 with 20 seconds left. You have the 25 and an agreement to play for a tie with the other team. Do you leave to go lift yourselves or try to score for them? What if both sides are trying to score that last ball for the side with 24 and they accidentally put in 2 balls? Then sticking to your agreement just knocked you from 73 points to 26 points. Or if you are the alliance with 24. Do you stick to your agreement and take 24 or do you lift one of your robots to get to 26 for yourself, moving you to 76 and the other side to 26. If you have an alliance with 3 really strong scoring bots, you may just decide to run up a big score for yourselves and then at some point switch to scoring for the other side to pump up your coopertition bonus.

I don't see anything wrong with cooperating for a tie, or cooperating for an n to 0 score. But I don't think it will be so easily done. I also don't see anything wrong with declining to participate in a cooperative tie. And again I will say that this is a really interesting game theory problem.

[Eckh]

I have only one thought and it reflectes the utter complexity of this years game. Wow this is going to be an interesting year.

[M80]

I think that in all honesty the lifting yourself onto the bar for bonus points is really just added difficulty i mean why couldn't they have chosen somthing that will be a little easier to accomplish along with the primary goal like kicking a ball all the way across the field.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by M80

I think that in all honesty the lifting yourself onto the bar for bonus points is really just added difficulty i mean why couldn't they have chosen somthing that will be a little easier to accomplish along with the primary goal like kicking a ball all the way across the field.

Engineering is about tradeoffs. This is one of the tradeoffs. If you don't like the fact that putting yourself up on the bar is difficult, feel free to not do it. Just be aware that a number of other teams think that it's not that difficult and will be hanging, getting themselves 2 or even 3 points. If you can stay on the floor and score 2 or 3 points that way, that is your decision.

Tradeoff: Hang for 2-3 points, depending on hanging place, or kick more goals for however many points you can get. Your choice.

[dodar]

After looking through the manual I didnt see anything about this but i could have missed something, are you allowed to have a pneumatic piston to already have air inside of it?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dodar

After looking through the manual I didnt see anything about this but i could have missed something, are you allowed to have a pneumatic piston to already have air inside of it?

I'd ask for clarification of this, but I'm pretty sure that <R01> has the answer:

<R01> Energy used by FRC ROBOTS, (i.e., stored at the start of a MATCH), shall come only from the following sources:
...
B. Compressed air stored in the pneumatic system, stored at a maximum pressure of 120 PSI in no more than four Clippard Instruments tanks. Extraneous lengths of pneumatic tubing shall not be used to increase the storage capacity of the air storage system.

Probably something to confirm with the Q&A, but it would be reasonable to assume so.

Now, can you weigh in without the air is the other question...

[dodar]

well would having the air already inside the pistons add that much more weight?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dodar

well would having the air already inside the pistons add that much more weight?

You'd be surprised. I've seen robots a couple pounds over drain their tanks and suddenly be right on the limit.

[dodar]

Well i dont mean inside the tanks i mean actually in the pistons but anyways, how big were the tanks?

[johnr]

Lets see. Six robots + 12 team members + refs + one gate + 2 teams waiting to come in = a very crowded mid field at end of game. I think by second comp they will let teams push their bots over bumps at end of game.

[viperred396]

Originally Posted by dodar

Does anyone see any struggle this year for teams to be able to drive onto the platform at the finale time?

I think this could be pretty hard to get up there because it is 20 in from the ground and even if you can get to the top of the bump you still have a 8 inch gap to get up there.

[Liu_yiang]

Overall, I think it's a good game. 2 problems with it though:
1: <R19> and Frame Perimeter. The 3 inches rule is an absolute beast to work around. The X-bot shall be remembered.

2. Hanging doesn't seem to have much of a point. In the last 20 seconds, wouldn't it be feasable to have a fast bot score 2 points and thus win the round? Hanging points are only for when all is said and done.

Other than that, I think they did a really good job with the game. I've been showing my non-robotics team friends the video for playing the game, and they are actually pretty interested in going to see it. Dean's homework is gonna be easy this year.

[dodar]

OK if you build your bumpers and back then with a frame but it is separate from your drivetrain, i.e. they arent connected by bolting them together or welding, would that be legal?

[johnr]

If the target is black and white, the floor stripe white and the ball is white, will the refs be wearing zebra shirts this year?

[viperred396]

Originally Posted by johnr

If the target is black and white, the floor stripe white and the ball is white, will the refs be wearing zebra shirts this year?

I also think it will be filmed with a black and white camera