Suction as a method for possessing balls

[Proud2BeaGeek]

Can you elaborate? Not as to how you did it, but by "viable" did you mean you were able to come up with enough suction, within the constraints of the rules, to possess a ball effectively?

[DMetalKong]

Originally Posted by Proud2BeaGeek

Can you elaborate? Not as to how you did it, but by "viable" did you mean you were able to come up with enough suction, within the constraints of the rules, to possess a ball effectively?

Our team also tried the shop vac + paper bowl method today and we shook the ball extremely hard before it went flying off. As long as the suction cup does not extend past the frame perimeter, does not allow the ball to protrude more than 3 inches into the frame perimeter, and has the ball touching the floor, I see no problem in keeping a firm grip on the ball.

[Kims Robot]

For anyone planning to use suction and potentially go up the ramps to score or go under the tunnel, I would caution that there are little bumps in the carpet on either side of the tunnel that might cause you to lose contact with the ground (they are about 1" high). They are metal plates that hold up the tower underneath the rug. I dont believe they are mentioned in the rules, havent checked the field drawings, but they are there and you will need to be VERY careful of these...

[Chris is me]

A question I'll ask the Q&A if it isn't horribly obvious:

If a device (suction or otherwise) holds the ball, and another robot pushes you up the bump, and the ball becomes CARRIED, is that a penalty?

[dodar]

In the rules it states that another robot cannot cause another robot to get a penalty, so I would say that they would not throw a flag on the situation

[Matt2081]

After a lot of team discussion, I haven't seen a way that could control the ball more effectively than a vacuum could, given the design constraints. After reading about people's promising tests here, we are definitely going to attempt suction.

It seems like multiple people here want to use suction and drag the ball from zone to zone. Has anyone given any thought to using suction just to grab the ball, then have the robot align itself to the target and propel the ball over the bumps and into the goal, as opposed to dragging the ball over the bumps and placing it in the goal?

[shortone1320]

our suction was simple, a shop vac with basiclly a funnel on the front. we dont plan on actually dragging it over ther may be too much deal with a penalty. we would release the suction and push it over and then follow with the robot...

[robself705]

If the ball comes off the ground while you are in possesion of it AT ALL whether it is intentional or not IS a pentalty. The point of these rules is so that you can design a mechanism which does not all this to happen. You need to think of these problems preemptively and that is what the rules intend. Whether or not you were pushed over the bump or get a ball stuck on the top of your robot is not a factor. The rules are the rules, just like a hand ball in real soccer.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by robself705

If the ball comes off the ground while you are in possesion of it AT ALL whether it is intentional or not IS a pentalty. The point of these rules is so that you can design a mechanism which does not all this to happen. You need to think of these problems preemptively and that is what the rules intend. Whether or not you were pushed over the bump or get a ball stuck on the top of your robot is not a factor. The rules are the rules, just like a hand ball in real soccer.

You might go back to read Law 12 about deliberate handling (not handball) if you're going to use a soccer comparison.

[dirkleton]

We made a prototype using nothing more than one of the 3 inch cooling fans provided in the kit, tape and paper (crude I know) and we were able to effectively control the ball. It would roll in any direction you moved the rig providing you didn't move it too fast. Granted a robot would never move so slowly while in possession of the ball, but the rig showed promise. We figured if we could find a fan that rotated at a much higher velocity, therefore sucking more air, the idea could be worth looking more into. However you would not be able to travel over the humps at all. Limiting the robots to the tunnel bottlenecks. I can't say that this is the plan we are going to use, but it would be awesome to see this idea used effectively at a regional! I just had fun rolling the ball with air.

[timpanda]

i don't think a suction idea will work. It is not practical and uses to much energy to do a simple task.

[Liu_yiang]

3 things to think on:
1.Bumps are going to be nasty, requiring that you let go as you go over.
2.The ball's going to need to take more that a few hits, and if a robot were to, say, hit the soccerball, would it be able to still hold on?
3. Once you've got it, how are you going to shoot it? If you plan on having a light grip, #2 comes in. If it's strong enough or too strong, you'll need to let it go before you hit it, meaning it may roll.

We haven't gone through the gauntlet of design ideas, but it seems suction hasn't stood up to testing.

[Enigma's puzzle]

Cprrect me if i am wrong, i have only seen people testing this with shop vacs, but has anyone attempted this with the vacuum kits provided in previous years kits (Not exactly sure which year they were provided, 2007?) ?

[Hadi379]

I'm not an expert at pneumatics, but I believe those vacuum kits require a compressor/regulator/storage tanks/etc (basically alot of weight). Whereas a shop vac operates off of a motor. I was shocked at the simplicity in design when I tore apart a shop vac......

[Hadi379]

Originally Posted by robself705

As long as the ball stays on the ground it is considered POSSESION which is perfectly legal. If the ball comes off the ground that is considered HOLDING which is a penalty.

I think its almost impossible to cross the bump while possessing a ball. If you try to go up the bump with the ball in front of you, the ball will raise off of the surface as you reach the flat of the bump and thats saying the ball doesn't jam you up at the bottom of the incline and possibly causing you to climb on top of the ball. If you try to drag the ball behind you as you climb up the ramp, it will again come off of the surface as you level out on the flat and as you descend down the bump.

Although, what usually happens is I get proved wrong......