ELEVATED but not hanging?

[kirtar]

Originally Posted by TomH

I have been debating this for some time (last few days) and the video (although I am told NOT to trust which is SUPPOSED to give an understanding of the game) does show it not once, but twice that being on the platform is considered elevated. If it is, then a triple stack would be worth 8 points, considering a plane is a flat surface that has generally no thickness, but if is not, then it is worth only 5 points as you said.

The triple stack mentioned is near the tower, not on the platform. To clarify (how I read it), you have a robot that drives up next to the platform that has for example a flat surface on it and it deploys a ramp. A robot gets on top of it (touches the tower), and somehow another robot puts itself on top of that one (and is not touching the tower). This would be one elevated, one suspended, for 5 points.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by kirtar

The triple stack mentioned is near the tower, not on the platform. To clarify (how I read it), you have a robot that drives up next to the platform that has for example a flat surface on it and it deploys a ramp. A robot gets on top of it (touches the tower), and somehow another robot puts itself on top of that one (and is not touching the tower). This would be one elevated, one suspended, for 5 points.

That was my thinking, yes. Slightly more practical implementation probably has the top bot mount the middle bot and then the middle bot mount the base bot. This only brings it down to about 10.5 on the 11 point scale of complete insanity, of course. I'm not proposing that this makes much sense, but it IS an interesting insight into the rules. Well, that and the somewhat warped workings of my brain.

[Paul Copioli]

Another interesting way to think about suspended is this:

Let's say robot 1 is elevated such that the bottom of the robot is at 24" by doing a pull-up on one of the horizontal bars on the tower. It now "sticks out its tongue (made of LEXAN, of course) and lays on the platform. If it stays within the 85 inches and another robot drives on the platform and is only on the LEXAN, then that robot is SUSPENDED and worth 3 points. The totla for that maneuver is 5 points.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Another interesting way to think about suspended is this:

Let's say robot 1 is elevated such that the bottom of the robot is at 24" by doing a pull-up on one of the horizontal bars on the tower. It now "sticks out its tongue (made of LEXAN, of course) and lays on the platform. If it stays within the 85 inches and another robot drives on the platform and is only on the LEXAN, then that robot is SUSPENDED and worth 3 points. The totla for that maneuver is 5 points.

Were you listening in on our design meetings?

[BrianCloutier]

The scary thing is, I've read all of the rules and what you guys are suggesting *is* legal (so far). Keep up the good work, and I love the Lexan idea, I'm bringing it up in our meeting tomorrow.

[KGood]

They might correct this in a rule update, but the GDC has a habit of leaving some rules open to ambiguity to let teams be creative.

[James Tonthat]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Another interesting way to think about suspended is this:

Let's say robot 1 is elevated such that the bottom of the robot is at 24" by doing a pull-up on one of the horizontal bars on the tower. It now "sticks out its tongue (made of LEXAN, of course) and lays on the platform. If it stays within the 85 inches and another robot drives on the platform and is only on the LEXAN, then that robot is SUSPENDED and worth 3 points. The totla for that maneuver is 5 points.

On the other hand, if one of your wires hangs down under the platform, you get no points. Just sayin'

[nnfuller]

Originally Posted by James Tonthat

On the other hand, if one of your wires hangs down under the platform, you get no points. Just sayin'

Please at least zip tie your wires... that would be a horrible reason to lose 2/3 points

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Another interesting way to think about suspended is this:

Let's say robot 1 is elevated such that the bottom of the robot is at 24" by doing a pull-up on one of the horizontal bars on the tower. It now "sticks out its tongue (made of LEXAN, of course) and lays on the platform. If it stays within the 85 inches and another robot drives on the platform and is only on the LEXAN, then that robot is SUSPENDED and worth 3 points. The totla for that maneuver is 5 points.

In a similar manner if you can hang using a small portion of the horizontal bar and put some type of thin shell out covering the rest of the bar, an alliance partner may be able to lift themselves up using that shell covered bar. The tower would bear all the load, but they would still get points for being SUSPENDED.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Another interesting way to think about suspended is this:

Let's say robot 1 is elevated such that the bottom of the robot is at 24" by doing a pull-up on one of the horizontal bars on the tower. It now "sticks out its tongue (made of LEXAN, of course) and lays on the platform. If it stays within the 85 inches and another robot drives on the platform and is only on the LEXAN, then that robot is SUSPENDED and worth 3 points. The totla for that maneuver is 5 points.

We thought ours was good but this is a bit more clever.

[Tom I]

Any rules against hanging, and then draping the tower with a curtain? I specifically remember in 04, teams would put lexan shields over the bar you had to hang from so that other teams WOULD be touching their robot, and thus NOT be considered hanging! with this game, you could do the reverse in order TO get the other two alliance partners to be Suspended rather than Elevated!

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Tom I

Any rules against hanging, and then draping the tower with a curtain? I specifically remember in 04, teams would put lexan shields over the bar you had to hang from so that other teams WOULD be touching their robot, and thus NOT be considered hanging! with this game, you could do the reverse in order TO get the other two alliance partners to be Suspended rather than Elevated!

There is nothing in the rules against this and is basically what I was suggesting above taken beyond just the bar you are hanging from.

[Rosiebotboss]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Another interesting way to think about suspended is this:

Let's say robot 1 is elevated such that the bottom of the robot is at 24" by doing a pull-up on one of the horizontal bars on the tower. It now "sticks out its tongue (made of LEXAN, of course) and lays on the platform. If it stays within the 85 inches and another robot drives on the platform and is only on the LEXAN, then that robot is SUSPENDED and worth 3 points. The totla for that maneuver is 5 points.

The official definition--SUSPENDED: A ROBOT only in contact with an ELEVATED ROBOT and/or a SUSPENDED ROBOT shall be considered SUSPENDED.

My interpretation- While I like your thinking out side the box, my gut tells me there will be a ruling forthcoming from the GDC that this manuver will be illegal. The intent of the rule is to have the 2nd robot hanging from the robot that is hanging from the tower.

My .02.

[Paul Copioli]

Dana,

This doesn't happen often, but I totally disagree with you on your interpretation. Nowhere do they reference the word "hanging" when they talk about SUSPENDED. At first, I thought what you thought, but now I am convinced the scenario I posted earlier will remain perfectly legal.

Think of it this way: what if I had ramps on my robot so you could drive up my robot. Then I had some mechanism that lifted both of us up and I was above the platform. Your robot is definitely not hanging from mine as it is sitting on my robot, but you are certainly SUSPENDED based on the definition in the rules.

What am I missing?

Paul

[dipmeinaluminum]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Dana,

This doesn't happen often, but I totally disagree with you on your interpretation. Nowhere do they reference the word "hanging" when they talk about SUSPENDED. At first, I thought what you thought, but now I am convinced the scenario I posted earlier will remain perfectly legal.

Think of it this way: what if I had ramps on my robot so you could drive up my robot. Then I had some mechanism that lifted both of us up and I was above the platform. Your robot is definitely not hanging from mine as it is sitting on my robot, but you are certainly SUSPENDED based on the definition in the rules.

What am I missing?

Paul

I have to agree, the design team and I are going crazy over this. Nowhere does it say hang.

"ELEVATED: A ROBOT that is completely above the plane of the PLATFORM and in contact with the TOWER shall be considered ELEVATED."

fine i accept this. now what's considered a PART of the tower?

"A TOWER is located in the center of each BUMP. Each TOWER is composed of a base and a pipe
superstructure. The PLATFORM is the horizontal surface of the base, and provides a solid surface
to support ROBOTS during the game"

ok, fine.....so if i drive on the PLATFORM i am awarded 2pts..and i am considered ELEVATED.

"SUSPENDED: A ROBOT only in contact with an ELEVATED ROBOT and/or a SUSPENDED
ROBOT shall be considered SUSPENDED."

so that robot cannot be in contact with anything else but an ELEVATED robot. but what if they climb on me like in 2007, and I am ELEVATED, and I AM in CONTACT with the TOWER......

If i am right. someone on my team is going to bake me cupcakes for Mentors Day...
CD, i need cupcakes....