Finale Blocking Strategy

[Tuba4]

Consider this situation for blocking during the finale period:

A redbot is positioned between a bluebot and the blue alliance tower. Redbot is clearly trying to prevent bluebot from gaining access to the tower. Bluebot pushes redbot into the tower segments that are below the platform level. Rule G35 says "During the FINALE, ROBOTS in may not contact the OPPONENT’S TOWER. Violation: PENALTY for inadvertent contact; plus a RED CARD for obviously intentional contact." Given that redbot was pushed into the tower by bluebot, is this still a penalty?

[cooldude8181]

Isn't there also supposed to be only "accidental" contact?

So would the penalties cancel out?

[Hadi379]

I believe another robot cannot force another into a penalty....

[EgROS]

Thats correct.

<G13> Causing PENALTIES – The actions of an ALLIANCE shall not cause an opposing ALLIANCE to violate a rule and thus incur PENALTIES. Any rule violations committed by the affected ALLIANCE shall be excused, and no PENALTIES will be assigned.

[Tom I]

In addition to being against the rules, pushing an opponent into your goal specifically to get a penalty for them isn't really GP, and luckily in this sport, that means that it won't happen very often/at all... Gotta love playing fair!

[dtengineering]

An interesting question... a possible Q&A question... and a great YMTC (you make the call) starter for the season.

I hope GDC will have a chance to answer this in the Q&A. My bet is that during the finale the intent is to allow teams a chance to climb the tower safely and that "defending" teams will be advised to give the tower a wide berth.

I say penalty for redabot, but not a red card.

Jason

Edit: And, as has often been mentioned, Gracious Professionalism is not a yardstick for measuring others. But I believe it would be totally fair, and in keeping with the nature of the game, to push a redabot into the tower and force them to take a penalty (if, indeed, it turns out that it is a penalty), so long as it doesn't create a safety hazard. Anyone silly enough to play D against a team with a superior drivetrain in this scenario deserves what they get.

[EricH]

No penalty for redateam, as bluateam pushed them into the tower. <G13> is the correct rule here.

If anything, it might end up being pinning on bluateam, if they hold redateam for more than 5 seconds.

[Kevin Sevcik]

However, consider that redateam has to play pretty much perfect defense here. If blueateam gets by them at all and touches any part of the tower, then redateam can't touch blueateam or the blue TOWER without a penalty. At which point, I think redateam gives up their defense. Plus, redateam has to be sure it doesn't accidentally brush the tower while defending.

Honestly, if blueateam has a bot to push redateam around, beating this defense is laughably easy. Blueateam just plans on pushing redateam sideways past the front of the tower, so it drive to the side of the tower, turns parallel to the bump and pushes. If redateam tries to keep blueateam from getting beside the bump, redateam gets pushed up the bump, which doesn't sound fun. Then blueateam turns and takes the front of the tower.

So, really, if your robot is going to lose a shoving match... then you should expect to win one. Best redateam can hope is to slightly annoy and slow down blueateam.

[DBortnick]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Best redateam can hope is to slightly annoy and slow down blueateam.

In the grand scheme of things, if blueateam only has 20 seconds to climb onto the tower and is using a hanging apparatus that takes it 10 seconds to attach and pull itself up, it should be feasible for redateam to stall blueateam into not being able to complete the task even if redateam has an inferior drive system.

[kirtar]

Just remember that the moment that blue gets in contact with the tower it is effectively invincible to anything except its own alliance and time.

[Tuba4]

Thanks to all for their comments. This discussion is exactly what this forum should be about. I will indeed see that this gets posted to the Q & A. A few other points to consider:

Bluebot pushing red bot in any fashion which results in redbot contacting the tower means bluebot caused the tower contact. Think of a charging foul in basketball. Whoever establishes their position first should (keyword should)get the call.

If redbot establishes position first, then blue bot will not only have to reach 7 ft in the air but 2 to 3 feet across redbot with their grabbing mechanism.

Bluebot will also have to get over redbot without being on redbot.