Soccer Ball Sold Out

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

Perhaps DTI woke up and said wait a minute, theres ~2000 teams who probably each want about 2 balls, we can make a lot of money here. Hey boys, put those balls back into production NOW.

They didn't promise immediate shipment on their website (I wouldn't be surprised if the balls are produced off-shore). It wouldn't be very useful for us receive the balls a month from now. I've left a voice-mail with DTI Sports inquiring about the ship date for my order. I will post their response when I receive it.

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by DtD

Honestly I don't know what the fuss is about. A socer ball is a socer ball. Our team didn't even consider getting an official ball, we are going to design our robot to use the misc size 5 soccer balls we all have lying around our houses.

While there is no problem with this line of thinking, you will be giving up valuable understanding of certain variables. You just have to remember that the game pieces that will be on the field will not be the same soccer ball you used to build and practice with your robot. Surfaces, stitching, bounce, and even inflation can pose either drastic or minute differences that could potentially make any of your mechanisms unsuitable.

[Dillon Compton]

All,

I just spoke with a DTI rep - they are still out of the HS300 series soccer ball. They will, if you call to order and mention you are with a FIRST team, sell you the HS500 series replacement at the same price as an HS300. The rep confirmed with me that they have started production on a new stock of balls and expect to be receiving a new stock of HS300 series soccer balls in a couple of weeks.

Clearly their website does not reflect current inventory, and you should confirm your orders via phone.

//Dillon Compton

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by DtD

Honestly I don't know what the fuss is about. A socer ball is a socer ball. Our team didn't even consider getting an official ball, we are going to design our robot to use the misc size 5 soccer balls we all have lying around our houses.

I can understand the issue with Lunacy, where the game pieces were very unique and diffrent some anything else.

~DtD

The outer surface finish and stitching can vary significantly among soccer balls. Depending how teams choose to interact with the balls, those parameters can have a big effect on the behavior of the ball.

While it may be fun to design a robot that will manage a variety of soccer balls well, we're just trying to develop a design solution for the official game piece. I'm hoping we won't have a repeat of the Poof Balls in Atlanta in 2006 (i.e. a new "game challenge").

[Ram Raman]

Quick question for anyone who went to the northeastern kickoff... does anyone know what parts from the KOP were missing?

[JonellGregor]

Well why not design a robot that can work with many different balls. As the competition goes on the balls will get worn just as the balls did last year. If you design your robot to only be able to handle the DTI ball when it is in perfect condition then you will be disappointed when you cannot handle the ball in competition. A size 5 soccer ball is a size 5 soccer ball. My team hasn’t even thought about buying the official balls. We have many different kinds of size 5 balls brought in by members on the team and they work fine.

[dtengineering]

Originally Posted by Jonell:)

Well why not design a robot that can work with many different balls. .... A size 5 soccer ball is a size 5 soccer ball. My team hasn’t even thought about buying the official balls. We have many different kinds of size 5 balls brought in by members on the team and they work fine.

You're probably right. In the big picture there are probably bigger issues than the exact ball. But I suspect the balls they are using at the world cup have slightly different properties than those we use in gym class.

You can see postings here from experienced soccer players that they can feel a difference between different balls when they play with them. (While I'm not an experienced soccer player, I know there are huge differences between different brands of basketballs.)

When I was speaking with a DTI rep, they mentioned that the surface finish of their balls was different than something you might get "off the shelf".

So far we've had good luck coming up with generic concepts for ball manipulation using a generic soccer ball. Given the time and money that we're putting in to this project, however, it would make sense to spend a few bucks and double check our assumptions about whether or not a DTI ball makes a difference.

I know the game manual says it doesn't matter what kind of size 5 soccer ball we use... but the game manual also spec'ed a coefficient of friction for the regolith last year that was, while theoretically correct, not reflected in actual practice. Yeah, we checked that out, too... although several other teams beat us to it. In the end, it wasn't that big of a deal... but it was a detail that needed checking.

So you'll understand, I hope, why "probably" right isn't good enough for many teams. We just want to be thorough.

Jason

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Ram Raman

Quick question for anyone who went to the northeastern kickoff... does anyone know what parts from the KOP were missing?

email me: brandonjholley@gmail.com

you guys were missing the pairs of gloves and the main pneumatic regulator

[cooldude8181]

I have never thought that all the soccer balls are a little bit different.

I will have to bring this up to my team because it is a very good point.

[rwood359]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

While there is no problem with this line of thinking, you will be giving up valuable understanding of certain variables. You just have to remember that the game pieces that will be on the field will not be the same soccer ball you used to build and practice with your robot. Surfaces, stitching, bounce, and even inflation can pose either drastic or minute differences that could potentially make any of your mechanisms unsuitable.

And don't forget color, if you want to ball handle during autonomous. We're getting the Ice Blue ones - will probably use off the shelf white for ball tracking checkout.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by rwood359

And don't forget color, if you want to ball handle during autonomous. We're getting the Ice Blue ones - will probably use off the shelf white for ball tracking checkout.

Depending on what type of sensor you are using to try and locate the ball, color may or may not be a factor. If we use a sensor to locate balls in autonomous I doubt it is going to be the camera. I think something like an Ultrasonic or IR setup is more the direction I would go.

[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

Perhaps DTI woke up and said wait a minute, theres ~2000 teams who probably each want about 2 balls, we can make a lot of money here. Hey boys, put those balls back into production NOW.

Not to mention that some teams put together an entire field so that's 12 balls + extras.

Our team went out and got a couple of similar balls, but according to the some the other posts, the finish is a bit different, so I think we might need to order some...hm...

[Greg Needel]

So, I am with you all on this one and it would have been nice to get one in the kit. That being said there is no reason for all the bashing going on in this thread. Yes, things could have been handled differently. Yes, There is the potential that your mechanism will not function the same with the "real" balls vs walmart ones. The issue here is that people are brewing on it, which solves nothing.

I suggest you all be Proactive about the situation, figure out what could make a ball different and try your best to prepare. There is a lesson in this that I feel people are missing because they are blinded by their emotions. Sometimes stuff happens that is beyond your control and you can and should rise to the challenge to overcome the problem.

I hope that when people look back on their build season they won't blame the fact that they couldn't buy the exact ball on the reason their robot was not as successful this year, and will attribute your season's successes to the process and challenges your team had to overcome to finish the year. Don't be distracted by this, it will only put you behind in your design.

Now go design your robot and stop complaining.


Also if anyone who was able to buy a ball wants to do some leg work for other teams, take the real ball to $@#$@#$@#$@#$@# sporting goods and see what is close. While I am not a soccer player I find it hard to believe that there is a huge difference in such a low cost item. (if we were talking about 300 world cup balls I might buy into it).

[Jon236]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

Now go design your robot and stop complaining.

Greg,

Amen to that. I called Eyal and told him the problem we were having here getting soccer balls; he couldn't stop laughing. He said soccer balls are 30 NIS (~$8) and readily available in Israel. I suggested that maybe his teams could supply the balls to FIRST as a fundraiser!

[David Brinza]

I just spoke with a DTI Sports sales rep. Upon request, they will substitute the HS500 for the HS300 for immediate shipment. They are expecting a new shipment of HS300 balls by Jan 25, for those who are willing/able to wait.

I don't think acquiring the game piece should be part of the challenge of FRC. Apparently, I'm just not thinking the right way.

"Fool me once...shame on you. Fool me twice..shame on me." But, fool me everytime? I think Einstein had an answer for that!