MERGED: Universal Hanging System/Standardized Partner Suspension

[Chris is me]

While the double robot grab idea sounds alright, I don't know how many (or if any) teams will actually add a second lifting arm to their robot for the purposes of using an attempt at a standard "handle" that has no guarantees of being itself present on any robots. Just something to consider.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Oh, oh, oh! I've got a standardized lifting system that I KNOW every team on the field is going to have..... wheels. Seriously. Given that most people don't read CD, and are unlikely to have a lift system that can latch at less than 60", I think wheels are your best bet for a universal lifting interface.

[Kims Robot]

Seeing how in 2000 & 2004 a lot of teams used some sort of hook or over the bar latching type mechanism here would be my suggestions for a standard:

1. SOMEWHERE on your robot put a bar that is the same OD as the 1.5" x.083 Wall 1020 CRS DOM Tube, and if possible use the same material.
Make the decision of WHERE to put it based on YOUR robot design. It shouldn't really matter to the other robots unless they have preprogrammed heights (in which case they or you can reprogram it for where your bar will be!) and as long as it is the right OD and strong enough to hold a 120lb robot, it will work and will be reasonably universal. If you wanted to get real fancy, put one on either side, so its easier to hang 2 robots off you.

2. Leave at LEAST 10" of free space between your mounting brackets.
This will give teams enough to "grab onto" and will account for different mechanisms. If you can leave even more room (ie put the mounting on the corners of your robot frame) its much more likely you could get 2 robots to hang off of you.

3. Make sure YOUR elevation mechanism can handle 300-450lbs hanging off of it. You may not need to LIFT this much if you get in place and let the other robots latch onto you, but you need to SUPPORT that much weight.

4. Paint it Bright Green. No vision target lights this year, so we are free to use whatever color, and that will be the most viewable from a distance. (Got this idea from a previous post )


And really, that should be enough of a standard.

[GaryVoshol]

5. Protect your own robot's innards from the wandering probe of your partner's hook.

[Kims Robot]

I changed my mind... dont bother trying to suspend other robots (using the hanging method)

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=13726

In my mind, its too risky that you will touch some part of the tower, its not wide enough to comfortably fit a standard robot base with enough wiggle room that hanging from another robot there is no way you would touch it (plus what if you were touching the other side of the platform or anything on the tower... no points). You are better off hanging yourself on another bar for 2 points than risking loosing the three.

(sorry for hijacking, but I dont see the point in spending time on a system like this anymore)

[Rizner]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

I changed my mind... dont bother trying to suspend other robots (using the hanging method)

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=13726

In my mind, its too risky that you will touch some part of the tower, its not wide enough to comfortably fit a standard robot base with enough wiggle room that hanging from another robot there is no way you would touch it (plus what if you were touching the other side of the platform or anything on the tower... no points). You are better off hanging yourself on another bar for 2 points than risking loosing the three.

(sorry for hijacking, but I dont see the point in spending time on a system like this anymore)

I believe if a robot tried to suspend from you and touched the side of the tower accidentally, they would still be elevated. In my opinion you could take the risk of getting the 3 points, and as long as nothing falls or breaks, the worst case is both robots are still elevated (given that it stays above the platform) and nothing is lost for trying.

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by Rizner

I believe if a robot tried to suspend from you and touched the side of the tower accidentally, they would still be elevated. In my opinion you could take the risk of getting the 3 points, and as long as nothing falls or breaks, the worst case is both robots are still elevated (given that it stays above the platform) and nothing is lost for trying.

They would still count as elevated, but you would not, so now instead of the 4 points (2 elevated) you would get if you both just hung by yourselves, you get 2 points (1 elevated) because you were trying for the 5 points (1 elevated 1 suspended)

[Donut]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

They would still count as elevated, but you would not, so now instead of the 4 points (2 elevated) you would get if you both just hung by yourselves, you get 2 points (1 elevated) because you were trying for the 5 points (1 elevated 1 suspended)

To be ELEVATED a robot must be in contact with the TOWER and above the PLATFORM plane (20"). How does another robot above 20" touching you cause you to no longer satisfy the ELEVATED condition? As long as both of you are above 20" and both end up touching the tower some how you would still get the 4 points for both robots being ELEVATED, robot to robot contact has no effect on whether a robot is considered ELEVATED.

Just make sure your suspending mechanism is likely to keep your partners above 20", if so there's a relatively small difference between 4 and 5 points for your alliance.

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by Donut

To be ELEVATED a robot must be in contact with the TOWER and above the PLATFORM plane (20"). How does another robot above 20" touching you cause you to no longer satisfy the ELEVATED condition? As long as both of you are above 20" and both end up touching the tower some how you would still get the 4 points for both robots being ELEVATED, robot to robot contact has no effect on whether a robot is considered ELEVATED.

Just make sure your suspending mechanism is likely to keep your partners above 20", if so there's a relatively small difference between 4 and 5 points for your alliance.

Ahh... understood, I guess for some reason I had it in my mind that the second robot may be likely to hang below the 20 inches, but that's a good point that if both are above the 20" that you still get the 4 points. I guess I didn't think of it that way

I still think if it were my choice I wouldnt bother adding a bar to my robot unless I had size & weight and the ability to support another robot... meaning I wouldnt design it in from the beginning. If it fit afterward fine, but I think we are likely to see maybe 1 hanging suspension per regional unless anyone designs a super tiny robot that just zips around the field and hangs!

[Phcullen]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

Wouldn't it make more sense to link the robots together while they were still on the ground... and just have one robot do the lift?

Jason

Then you put the responsablty to lift 360lbs on one robot

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Phcullen

Then you put the responsablty to lift 360lbs on one robot

Yes.... But then you have to figure out how long it's going to take for one robot to hook, latch and lift, and THEN for another robot to hook, latch, and lift. Which seems quite time consuming to me.

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

Ahh... understood, I guess for some reason I had it in my mind that the second robot may be likely to hang below the 20 inches, but that's a good point that if both are above the 20" that you still get the 4 points. I guess I didn't think of it that way

You were thinking that because it's the most feasible way of getting all this done in a reasonable timeframe. Otherwise, you're talking about the first robot lifting +50" and then the second robot grabbing and lifting as well.

[jerry w]

I wonder why everyone thinks we have to hang from the tower??
If 2 robots were sitting on the third robot, and the first 2 are touching the tower, then they are both ELEVATED.
Thus a ramp robot could provide a very quick way to score 4 points for the alliance. No hooks, no cranes, no claw.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by jerry w

I wonder why everyone thinks we have to hang from the tower??
If 2 robots were sitting on the third robot, and the first 2 are touching the tower, then they are both ELEVATED.
Thus a ramp robot could provide a very quick way to score 4 points for the alliance. No hooks, no cranes, no claw.

Assuming the third robot has high enough ramps, that is correct.

Wouldn't you rather have 3 hanging robots on your alliance who get 6 (or 8) points rather than 4?

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Seconded. I would also suggest making it a very bright color that's easy to see from 15 feet away or so.

And just some food for thought, there are going to be a lot of teams that aren't going to be sold on hanging from your robot, I for one am completely opposed to the idea of trusting anyone enough to attempt to hang their 150lb (yes I said 150lbs, 120lb robot + 13lbs + 15lbs bumpers = ~150lbs) robot from our robot and vice versa, so you're going to have to sell whatever hanging mechanism you have to your alliance and prove that it has a safe working load of 300lbs for two robots and 450lbs for three robots.

To be safe, ALWAYS double your maximum working load. If you're lifting a 150 lb robot, you need to design it to safely lift 300 lbs. For 2 robots, 600 lbs. For 3 robots, 900 lbs.

Designing a system that can lift that much weight is going to be a pretty hard task with the materials provided. On the other hand, lifting yourself isn't nearly as hard - and with an appropriate locking mechanism in place, you can hold much more weight than your motors could ever lift. It seems that designing a system that can first touch the tower, extend to the finale configuration, grab the bar, and lift itself up would be key - then the first robot could get into position whenever they wanted (even before the 20 second finale). The other two come up and lift onto that robot in the last 20 seconds and you're golden.

[Bochek]

Sorry, i haven't read the whole thread, but has anyone thought of the one part that ever team MUST have identical? Bumpers?