Official Team Update #2! 1/15/2010

[Akash Rastogi]

Talks about ball possession and stuffs.

http://usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Rob...Update%202.pdf

[Brandon Holley]

Good update. Answers a lot of questions I feel were still hanging out there.


I'm curious as to what other peoples interpretations are of the new rule regarding controlling a ball.
Part a is the frame perimeter rule we had earlier
part b now states a ball cannot proceed more than 3" into a mechanism above the robot....this seems like it could be interpreted in different ways.

whats everyones thoughts?


Exact quoting for reference:
<R19> ROBOTS must be designed so that in normal operation BALLS cannot extend more than 3 inches inside the FRAME PERIMETER below the level of the BUMPER ZONE.
a) the FRAME PERIMETER below the level of the BUMPER ZONE (see figure 8-5).
b) a MECHANISM or feature designed to deflect balls in a controlled

[Chris is me]

I believe that would mean, say, if you had a channel for balls to slide down on top of your robot, no more than 3 inches of the ball could be "in it". Funnels also are illegal.

[Phoenix Spud]

Wow, this was a good team update. Normally, I dread them because they change the game, but this one seemed to clarify more than anything else.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I believe that would mean, say, if you had a channel for balls to slide down on top of your robot, no more than 3 inches of the ball could be "in it". Funnels also are illegal.

Thats my feeling as well.



To give credit where credits due, thanks to the GDC for this update. These were definitely questions that needed answers and you guys responded in what I interpret as a clear manner.



Off to keep building...

[bduddy]

I'm curious as to what exactly "inside" means. From my reading of the rule, any kind of ball deflector, etc. above the bumper zone is legal, which I'm not sure was the intent.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by bduddy

I'm curious as to what exactly "inside" means. From my reading of the rule, any kind of ball deflector, etc. above the bumper zone is legal, which I'm not sure was the intent.

I think regardless of how they worded it, the intent is very clearly that the GDC does NOT want to see robots designed to deflect balls in a specific manner, or guiding them in any manner above your bumpers other than preventing a ball getting stuck on top.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by bduddy

I'm curious as to what exactly "inside" means. From my reading of the rule, any kind of ball deflector, etc. above the bumper zone is legal, which I'm not sure was the intent.

A passive deflector seems to be legal according to this update. The way I read the update something like a playground slide shaped funnel is legal, if it is only 3" deep.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

A passive deflector seems to be legal according to this update. The way I read the update something like a playground slide shaped funnel is legal, if it is only 3" deep.

Very challenging to cut down on bouncing though to use such a funnel.

[jvriezen]

[MECHANISMS are considered “active” if they are in motion relative to the ROBOT while in contact with the BALL. Resetting or moving MECHANISMS while not in contact with a BALL is permitted as the MECHANISMS are not considered “active.”]

What about a robot part that moves due to forces such as the impact of the ball, or inertia related to robot accelerations? For example, a loose cargo net, which would move if the robot stopped or turned suddenly and of course when hit by a ball. How about a padded surface that gets depressed by a ball hitting it? Both of these are 'moving' relative to the robot while in contact with the ball.

It seems the 'spirit' of the "active" definition seems to apply to mechanisms which move due to robot actuators.

[bhsrobotics1671]

Im curious about the 13.5" change in the BUMP height. I was in NH for the kickoff and noticed the angle seemed steeper than 45 degrees. What does this height change do for the BUMP?

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by bhsrobotics1671

Im curious about the 13.5" change in the BUMP height. I was in NH for the kickoff and noticed the angle seemed steeper than 45 degrees. What does this height change do for the BUMP?

The bump didn't actually change since Kickoff. It's just changed in the Manual to reflect it.

I think the angle is still 45 degrees.

[bhsrobotics1671]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

The bump didn't actually change since Kickoff. It's just changed in the Manual to reflect it.

I think the angle is still 45 degrees.

Thanks!

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Spud

Wow, this was a good team update. Normally, I dread them because they change the game, but this one seemed to clarify more than anything else.

I'm gonna have to disagree here... They changed <R19> in a big way. Not being able to intentionally affect balls above the bumper zone, while not POSESSING them is huge.

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

I think regardless of how they worded it, the intent is very clearly that the GDC does NOT want to see robots designed to deflect balls in a specific manner, or guiding them in any manner above your bumpers other than preventing a ball getting stuck on top.

define 'a specific manner'. If i design a robot that looks approximately like this:

|\
| \
|  \
|   \
|    \
|     \
________

and park it in the direction that would deflect balls toward my end, have i violated this rule as updated in TU#2?

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

I'm gonna have to disagree here... They changed <R19> in a big way. Not being able to intentionally affect balls above the bumper zone, while not POSESSING them is huge.

<R19> as modified by update 2 does not read that you cannot intentionally affect balls above the bumper zone while not possessing them.

<G45> always restricted this behavior using an active mechanism, which has now had its definition clarified.

<R19-B> as modified requires that balls only extend a maximum of 3" inside of any (passive) MECHANISM or feature above the BUMPER ZONE that directs the balls in a controlled manner.

In my opinion (which of course doesn't mean anything), the ball does not extend inside the sloped feature you've shown at all so that would be legal. A little bit more clarification though Q&A is probably necessary for this rule.