Video of Kicker Prototypes

[Phoenix Spud]

Thanks for posting this. (Some days I love the WORLD wide web)

[GaryVoshol]

There was a robot that had a rapid fire and reload mechanism for shooting balls. It must have been for Aim High. It used a cam arrangement to pull the latex tubing back into tension. Anyone remember it?

It seems something like that, with a pause before firing because we aren't rapid loading this year, would pull the kicker back into the FRAME PERIMETER within the 2 second limit.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

There was a robot that had a rapid fire and reload mechanism for shooting balls. It must have been for Aim High. It used a cam arrangement to pull the latex tubing back into tension. Anyone remember it?

It seems something like that, with a pause before firing because we aren't rapid loading this year, would pull the kicker back into the FRAME PERIMETER within the 2 second limit.

I believe both 1523 and 45 Mk. 1 operated this way.

[DMetalKong]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

There was a robot that had a rapid fire and reload mechanism for shooting balls. It must have been for Aim High. It used a cam arrangement to pull the latex tubing back into tension. Anyone remember it?

It seems something like that, with a pause before firing because we aren't rapid loading this year, would pull the kicker back into the FRAME PERIMETER within the 2 second limit.

Could you be referring to 1625's 2008 robot?

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by DMetalKong

Could you be referring to 1625's 2008 robot?

That wasn't what I was thinking of, but something like that might work even better.

The robot I was thinking of had a rotating boot, and there was some kind of a cam and latex tube arrangement to give extra ooomph to the downward swing. But the more I think of it, the less suitable I think it might be. This year's kicker would be a pendulum, not a circular motion.

And it wasn't 1523's either, but it must have been somewhere in the South because I recall a video shot outdoors.

[ttldomination]

I'm sorry but I do not quite understand the first method. Is the piston pressurized, and then you guys pull against the pressure causing it to kick out?

[Donut]

Glad to see a working pneumatic prototype. My team has been trying straight up pushing as well as lever arms using pneumatics without compressing them partially and have had no good results yet. They were supposed to try something similar to the first method tonight but seeing as I am not in the same city I don't know the results...

Because of the relatively slow speeds that all the pneumatics extend at I expect to see very few (if any) successful kickers using pneumatics that do not jam a partially compressed cylinder or use surgical tubing as an aid.

[Bill_B]

Great GP/sharing for this video! Gotta watch the "air" under the ball though. If you get one outside the field (over the railing OR end zone) it'll be a serious penalty. yellow card?

[Mr_I]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

I'm sorry but I do not quite understand the first method. Is the piston pressurized, and then you guys pull against the pressure causing it to kick out?

I share in ttldomination's confusion. It looks like you're using the compressed air in the cylinder as the stored energy. What's missing is the device that compresses the cylinder, releasing it when you want to fire.

Has anyone considered using a small bore cylinder (and thus fast extension) to push a lever near its fulcrum? Or would the small cylinder be unable to provide the "oomph" necessary?

[MrForbes]

To figure out roughly how big of a cylinder you need based on how much "oomph" you need, figure out how much energy the ball needs as it begins it's trajectory..then figure out how much energy you can get into a cylinder. You only have 60 psi and max 2" bore to work with.

[TEntwistle]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

Great GP/sharing for this video! Gotta watch the "air" under the ball though. If you get one outside the field (over the railing OR end zone) it'll be a serious penalty. yellow card?

My read of the rules is that you only get a yellow card for an intentional shot of the ball outside of the arena

[RRLedford]

Originally Posted by squirrel

To figure out roughly how big of a cylinder you need based on how much "oomph" you need, figure out how much energy the ball needs as it begins it's trajectory..then figure out how much energy you can get into a cylinder. You only have 60 psi and max 2" bore to work with.

The big issue with air cylinders is that a good kick needs to place an object going at ~25-30 MPH in contact with the ball for about 1/50th of a second with said object having enough momentum that it doesn't lose too much speed during contact with the ball.
Pneumatic pistons have to drive the air in front of them out of the cylinder as they accelerate within it. This often restricts their peak velocity, depending on the orifice size of the cylinder's air exit hole. I don't know if it is allowed, but pulling a vacuum on the cylinder ahead of the piston would effectively give a 15LB pressure boost and seriously increase peak piston speed.
The CFPM capacity of the KOP air compressor also seems much too low to allow very many high power shots. Perhaps using a motor to drive a piston back into a sealed cylinder to built up the air pressure inside to the legal max would allow for both more frequent and stronger shots to be taken in a match.
-RRLedford

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

There was a robot that had a rapid fire and reload mechanism for shooting balls. It must have been for Aim High. It used a cam arrangement to pull the latex tubing back into tension. Anyone remember it?

It seems something like that, with a pause before firing because we aren't rapid loading this year, would pull the kicker back into the FRAME PERIMETER within the 2 second limit.

I know which robot you're talking about and remember the video vividly, but also cant remember which team no. It was the most unorthodox shooter, yet effective and accurate of all the '06 bots I saw that year.

[dag0620]

Thank you so much for posting this! 1071 is looking also into both designs however are pneumatics were not to successful. We are probably going to end up trying a kicker similar to the 2'nd one shown in your video. Thanks again!

[Al3+]

Nice!

About the first method-
Is the piston fixed to a point on the lever?
If I'm understanding this correctly you're not actually actuating the piston with the valve, but rather using the lever to compress it mechanically. So in effect, it's like a spring (correct?). Our team has been trying out designs including one with a spring-loaded shooter, but we don't yet have a simple reloading mechanism for it (which I see as the main drawback of such a design)..
Hm.