Curiosity on why most teams choose LabView

[Wendy Holladay]

Ni hardware, ni software, good fit.
wendy holladay
team 1912

[Mike Copioli]

Our team uses Windriver primarily because our team has many students who are programmers. Programmers use programming languages. Labview is written in a programming language. I suspect that it was written in c/c++. If an individual desires to become a developer of products that use micro controllers they must know a programming language. If an individual desires to write desktop software they must learn a programming language. Having said that Labview is a great tool for people who are not programmers or have little knowledge of programming but need to create software that runs on a specific platform and need to do it fast. Gregs example highlights this. I personally enjoy the flexability that programming languages provide. They are universal allowing developers to write software for a variety of processor platforms. Although that the result may be the same, in some cases, whether you are using Labview or c/c++, to argue that one is better than the other is pointless because they are not the same thing.

[Bryan Herbst]

The other programmer and I who have been around began coding on the IFI controller in C. Last year, with much persuasion on my part, we decided to try LabView.

I was perfectly okay with it, but the other programmer despised it for a number of reasons.

This year was the first year we have truly had new members interested in programming. Though the mentors and I pushed for labview, we decided to leave it up to a vote of the new programming team. For whatever reason, they decided to go with C++ (I attribute some of this to the fact that two of the members are currently in our school's Computer Science class, which teaches in java, and thus provides text-based experience).

The idea behind the mentors' and my thinking was that LabView would be easier to teach, easier for them to grasp onto quickly, and more comfortable as many of them use it in their workplace (Medtronic). Luckily one mentor has experience with C++, and the other programmer and I have our previous experience work off of.

Still not sure why the decision to use C++ was made, and we will have to see how it turns out.

[jhersh]

Originally Posted by Tanis

This year was the first year we have truly had new members interested in programming. Though the mentors and I pushed for labview, we decided to leave it up to a vote of the new programming team. For whatever reason, they decided to go with C++ (I attribute some of this to the fact that two of the members are currently in our school's Computer Science class, which teaches in java, and thus provides text-based experience).

That begs the question why Java was not selected if that's what the students are learning!

[jhersh]

Originally Posted by Mike Copioli

Our team uses Windriver primarily because our team has many students who are programmers. Programmers use programming languages. Labview is written in a programming language. I suspect that it was written in c/c++. If an individual desires to become a developer of products that use micro controllers they must know a programming language. If an individual desires to write desktop software they must learn a programming language. Having said that Labview is a great tool for people who are not programmers or have little knowledge of programming but need to create software that runs on a specific platform and need to do it fast. Gregs example highlights this. I personally enjoy the flexability that programming languages provide. They are universal allowing developers to write software for a variety of processor platforms. Although that the result may be the same, in some cases, whether you are using Labview or c/c++, to argue that one is better than the other is pointless because they are not the same thing.

Just FYI, LabVIEW is a programming language.

[Doc Wu]

Our team had been programming in C on the IFI controllers. We seriously considered continuing in C/C++ in 2009, but eventually decided to go with LabView.

We only had one Mentor with much experience in C/C++ and a couple who knew just a smattering. No students with any experience.

None of us had any experience in LabView, yet we decided to choose it because of it's building-block approach and visual clarity. We felt it would be easier to get students involved in the process.

Some of our students from a FLL background had used the NXT software, so they liked it.

We struggled at first, but eventually made progress and were happy with the results. We found a local resource who coached us on LabView and Ben Zimmers videos were extremely helpful.

Our schools don't teach any real programming courses, so there was no knowledge base in either C/C++ or Java. Our local university uses Java in their Computer Science program, but we have no resources there.

This year, we are so comfortable with LabView, we are continuing to use it and look forward to using it again.


...and yes, we had an autonomous mode - several of them - last year.

[fritzdejongh]

Yes, Labview is a programming language by any standard. You have inputs and outputs, can implement general algorithms and data structures, etc. It's great for state machines, for example.

For the curious (see thread title) one reason we chose Labview is that we did believe it would provide general programming experience relevant to any programming language. Isn't this more important for children than cultivating specialized skills in a particular language?

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by jhersh

Just FYI, LabVIEW is a programming language.

I respectfully disagree.

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by fritzdejongh

Yes, Labview is a programming language by any standard. You have inputs and outputs, can implement general algorithms and data structures, etc. It's great for state machines, for example.

Ok, by your definition wouldn't Excel would be considered a programming language?

Originally Posted by fritzdejongh

For the curious (see thread title) one reason we chose Labview is that we did believe it would provide general programming experience relevant to any programming language.

Yes, if by "any programming language" you mean Labview

Originally Posted by fritzdejongh

Isn't this more important for children than cultivating specialized skills in a particular language?

This is exactly my point.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Mike Copioli

Ok, by your definition Excel would be considered a programming language.

Not sure I agree with this statement: Excel is backend driven by VBA (Visual Basic for Applications), which IS a programming language. Excel is just a fancy frontend for it.

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

Not sure I agree with this statement: Excel is backend driven by VBA (Visual Basic for Applications), which IS a programming language. Excel is just a fancy frontend for it.

Yes, I agree, that was the point of my post.

[BLAQmx]

Originally Posted by Mike Copioli

Our team uses Windriver primarily because our team has many students who are programmers. Programmers use programming languages. Labview is written in a programming language. I suspect that it was written in c/c++.

LabVIEW is written both in C/C++ and LabVIEW. LabVIEW can also target and program a variety of micro controllers including ARM and ADI Blackfin. It can be used the write software for Mac, Linux, and PC.

I personally enjoy the flexability that programming languages provide. They are universal allowing developers to write software for a variety of processor platforms.

Are .NET and Cocoa not programming languages by this definition?

But, we should all probably quick hijacking this thread... Back to the original question - I think LabVIEW is a good choice because it can lower the barrier for entry for computer programming without preventing teams from writing powerful software. LabVIEW is also a great icebreaker for those who find the syntax of text base programming difficult, but still want to learn the basic computer science concepts that are shared across all programming languages.

While working tech support last year I told many teams that were successful with LabVIEW to experiment with C++ in the off season. You can only benefit by challenging yourself and learning as many languages as possible to prepare for college and your career.

[fritzdejongh]

I find that programming in Labview provides experience relevant for programming in general, including in C++ and Java, and listed some reasons why above. This was one reason to choose it for our team. (I would find Excel to be more special-purpose). I don't think you need to choose C++ or Java to learn programming.

Mainly, Labview seemed to have some major advantages for the FRC competition, as discussed above. No one has responded whether C++ or Java has similar capabilities. If they do, and us rookies had found out about it, more of us might have chosen differently.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Mike Copioli

I respectfully disagree.

Okay, if you want to get pedantic about it, LabVIEW is a programming environment. The programming language is actually named G.

[woodn1980]

We are going to use Labview this year because it's the easiest to use by those with little experience in programming. Please don't clutter the posts with trivial arguments.