Defense robots for 2010 game..

[Jones571]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I'm kind of curious how refs are going to rule on that sort of thing if you end up tipping or damaging a robot that was never designed to traverse the bumps. Especially if you end up damaging a robot. I know the whole "Build robust" thing, but there's only so much some of the rookies are going to do there.

I think G38 <A> will apply as if this happens on a regular basis i think it can easily be called aggressive and intentional. As well as G37 <B> which says Incidental contact is generally allowed... So If you are over aggressive and push them over a ramp you may find your self in some serious trouble.

[Tony.Wu]

5 seconds may still be quite significant as this is only a 2 minute game. If you can pin the opponent and kick the balls away from your goal before he recovers?

[gss383]

Well, actually it is kind of a nonsense idea. If you get an ultra high score, like 50 x 0, it would mean a tie, so the ideal would to get a 50-49 score, wich would mean 148 x 99, or a victory and lots of points.

[wendells]

The game is too short for defence, we will be able to neutralize any robot that wants to play goalkeeper. I feel kicking the soccer ball is key to the match AND TEAM 2185 is developing a kicker that will make David Beckam look like a chump.
I think that that people that are not familar with the game of soccer should get a few DVD's on soccer and watch different matches so they could better understand how to play the game.
Team 2185 will be coming with an attack bot!

wendells
School Soccer Coach

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by wendells

The game is too short for defence, we will be able to neutralize any robot that wants to play goalkeeper. I feel kicking the soccer ball is key to the match AND TEAM 2185 is developing a kicker that will make David Beckam look like a chump.
I think that that people that are not familar with the game of soccer should get a few DVD's on soccer and watch different matches so they could better understand how to play the game.
Team 2185 will be coming with an attack bot!

wendells
School Soccer Coach

Who said that defense had to be playing 'goalkeeper'?

Most defense is played by having great middies.

[theun4gven]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Who said that defense had to be playing 'goalkeeper'?

Most defense is played by having great middies.

My thoughts exactly. It's tough to score when you never have the ball.

[Jones571]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Who said that defense had to be playing 'goalkeeper'?

Most defense is played by having great middies.

agreed you need a fast agile and powerful middie to act as the arbiter of the match. Only giving your opponent the balls you want them to have to increase your seeding points.

[labrat_one]

Looks like ChiefDelphi has become BigSoccer.

Overloading the scoring zone with the balls is the simplest idea to win by scoring big.

Each elimination match will be won/lost in midfield, as the balls are returned the ability to get the balls into your scoring area reliably will be key.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by labrat_one

Looks like ChiefDelphi has become BigSoccer.

I hope CD never stoops that low. We are much more gracious here.

[IBdrummer]

The most important part of a robot design on defense is a drive train. That has typically been true in other years such as 06' and 07' and this year could be very similar. Without a fast enough or strong enough bot you will not be able to control an opponent or position, but at the same time you don't have to necessarily compromise your offensive power for defensive capabilities.

With a solid drive train, a decent kicker (with average range and accuracy) and height to block angled kicks I can't see robots being a bad fit for defense. The more you improve on these factors the better you'll be at offense and defense and the more valuable your bot will be.

In the end, defense is mostly reliant on driver ability and strategy. Give a solid base to a good driver and he can cause an offensive player a lot of trouble.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Who said that defense had to be playing 'goalkeeper'?

Most defense is played by having great middies.

True, but there is no off sides in this game.

[Wayne TenBrink]

The best (only?) place for a defense robot in this game is in your opponent's zone. Their job will be to get the ball out of the zone and slow down the offense bot(s) - not block shots. A robot playing defense anywhere else is just chasing other robots around and not moving balls toward its scoring zone.

I think the key to the game will be to minimize the total tact time between when you choose to go after a ball and when you have moved it toward the goal. This means a quick chassis, wide "ball magnet", ability to turn downfield without loosing control of the ball, and a quick-cycle kicker with repeatable accuracy that will clear at least one bump all the time (for a score hopefully), and not kick it so hard that it bounces out of the goal. Adjustable kick force will be helpful.

Perhaps more than ever, a good offense bot can handle the necessary defense, but not the other way around.

My $.02

[thefro526]

I have a very strong opinion on defensive robots, which I've developed from my time in FIRST in different levels and capacities.

Personally, I would never "build" a robot to play defense. I've found that it's far too risky, because should you be paired with two other defensive robots then you no longer have the ability to score any points. (arguably) More often than not, a capable offensive robot in any game has been able to play effective defense, whether this be through interference, pinning, or some other game specific strategy.

And also, looking at this game, there's no real defensive strategies that require any specialized robot features, with the exception of a strong drive base and capable "kicker" and both of these belong on a good offensive robot in my opinion. When I think of a good defensive robot this year, I think of a machine that plays the role of an on-field ball returner so to say. This machine would go up against your opponents and starve them of their ball supply while also feeding yours. I really don't think playing goalie will be an effective way of defending this year, because once you block one goal an opponent could just use the other to score on.

Finally, I think a lot of alliances will find themselves playing their best defender in the midfield. I can foresee a lot of fighting over the balls coming from the ball return.

[eugenebrooks]

Instead of taking them for a ride across the bumps, how about parking
them on top of a bump. Done gently, without robot or field damage,
how is this overly aggressive? The team could just come out and fetch
their robot after the match was over with no harm done.

Eugene

Originally Posted by Jones571

I think G38 <A> will apply as if this happens on a regular basis i think it can easily be called aggressive and intentional. As well as G37 <B> which says Incidental contact is generally allowed... So If you are over aggressive and push them over a ramp you may find your self in some serious trouble.

[kjolana1124]

Originally Posted by eugenebrooks

Instead of taking them for a ride across the bumps, how about parking
them on top of a bump. Done gently, without robot or field damage,
how is this overly aggressive? The team could just come out and fetch
their robot after the match was over with no harm done.

Eugene

It would depend how your refs define pinning. The rules claim it's if a robot is being pushed against a wall or part of the field. So if you're pushing a robot up the ramp, they may count that as pinning, no matter how gentle.