adjustable pressure regulator

[Dillon Compton]

Originally Posted by windell747

I was thinking to get another regulator and attach it to one of those window motors with an encoder to monitor the position of the knob. However this seems way to complicated. I would like to find a simpler way.

http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=ip610&Nav=prel01

Check out the IP610-60. I believe it should be relatively simple to integrate and very precise (especially compared to physically turning a pressure regulator!) if you have someone comfortable with programming and the control system.

I've not seen one of these in use before, but as far as I can tell in a quick rules check, they ARE legal pneumatic components AND legal electrical components for the 2010 FRC competition.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!

[engunneer]

Originally Posted by Dillon Compton

http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=ip610&Nav=prel01

Check out the IP610-60. I believe it should be relatively simple to integrate and very precise (especially compared to physically turning a pressure regulator!) if you have someone comfortable with programming and the control system.

I might recommend one of the Voltage to pressure models: http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?r...211&Nav=prel01

The one you linked to is controlled by current, which is ever so slightly more complicated (but still not hard to do).

I have NOT verified if these would be considered legal, but Q&A it if you are unsure.

[elmer_fud]

Originally Posted by engunneer

I might recommend one of the Voltage to pressure models: http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?r...211&Nav=prel01

The one you linked to is controlled by current, which is ever so slightly more complicated (but still not hard to do).

I have NOT verified if these would be considered legal, but Q&A it if you are unsure.

I thought there was a $300 COS electronics part limit

edit: <R22> No individual item shall have a value of over $400.00. You could use the first valve linked I think

[EricH]

Originally Posted by elmer_fud

I thought there was a $300 COS electronics part limit

edit: <R22> No individual item shall have a value of over $400.00. You could use the first valve linked I think

You're thinking of the rules from some years ago. There hasn't been a separate electronics limit for quite some time. $400 is the only limit other than the grand total.

[jspatz1]

Control system rules are not my area and I have not studied any changes for this year, but connecting outputs to a device such as an electronic regulator has always been prohibited in the past. We considered this exact same idea last year when looking for ways to vary our pneumatic catapult. The ruling was that the electronic regulator is an electromagnetic actuator just like a solenoid or prohibited servo or motor is, and therefore could not be used. Only kit motors, servos, and solenoid valves may recieve output signals, unless they have made a major change this year. I would study this carefully before proceeding.

[Ether]

Use one input solenoid and one exhaust solenoid, and adjust the kick by varying the on/off timing of the two in software. no pressure regulator necessary.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by jspatz1

We considered this exact same idea last year when looking for ways to vary our pneumatic catapult. The ruling was that the electronic regulator is an electromagnetic actuator just like a solenoid or prohibited servo or motor is, and therefore could not be used.

Was this a response from the Q&A? I would have to agree that it is a motor and therefore not a legal motor.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Was this a response from the Q&A? I would have to agree that it is a motor and therefore not a legal motor.

Al, it was a response ot the Q&A but with the way they worded the question they got a different rule outlawing it.

Quote from 2009 Q&A

Modified PWM Signal
Posted by FRC1986 at 01/19/2009 02:26:38 pm
Is it allowed to use a modified PWM signal to control an electronic pressure regulator to control
pneumatics?
A low pass filter would be used to convert the 5v digital PWM signal into a 0-5v analog signal.
Re: Modified PWM Signal
Posted by GDC at 01/22/2009 06:41:00 pm
No. That would be a violation of Rule <R67>.

Quote from 2009 Manual

<R67> All outputs from sensors, custom circuits and additional electronics shall connect to only the
following:
A. Other custom circuits, or
B. PWM Out, I2C, Relay or Digital I/O ports on the Digital Sidecar, or
C. Analog In ports on the Analog Breakout.
D. Ethernet Port 2 on the cRIO Mobile Device Controller (to which the Kit Of Parts-provided
camera, and only that camera, may be connected).

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Well then, three strikes and you're out! Illegal motor, illegal pneumatic part and illegal method of driving it.

[djdaugherty]

Is this ilegal because of the modified pwm signal, or is it the regulator itself. <R72> g specifically states that pressure regulators may be used.

<R68> additionally states that outputs from sensors, custom circuits and additional electronics may connect to
B. additional COTS electronics

Also, could you just give it a signal from the cRIO?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

The regulator has a motor inside that does the work=Illegal motor. Not a specified pneumatic part=illegal pneumatic. Not fed through a speed controller or spike=illegal electrical usage.

[djdaugherty]

I submitted a question to the official Q&A asking if electronic regulators are allowed. Do all questions that are asked get answered? If so, what is the general turn around time?

Thanks!

[Al Skierkiewicz]

DJ,
It is my understanding that all questions do get answered although they may be lumped together. As you can imagine many teams have similar questions that can be answered in a single response. As always, simple answers can be given in a short period of time and tougher ones will take longer as discussion among the members is required. I don't think there is any fixed time in which you can expect a response. Please be patient.

[jspatz1]

Originally Posted by djdaugherty

Is this ilegal because of the modified pwm signal, or is it the regulator itself. <R72> g specifically states that pressure regulators may be used.

<R68> additionally states that outputs from sensors, custom circuits and additional electronics may connect to
B. additional COTS electronics

Also, could you just give it a signal from the cRIO?

Note that it says outputs FROM sensors, not TO devices. Control outputs to devices other than kit motors, solenoids valves, or legal servos are not permitted. And as already stated, the e-regulator is really a servo, steppermotor, or electromagnet of some form, so it is not a legal actuator. An e-regulator is illegal in multiple ways.