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Unread 22-01-2010, 18:53
zaphodp.jensen zaphodp.jensen is offline
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Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

Does anyone know the torque of the Fisher Price Gearbox?
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Unread 22-01-2010, 19:15
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Re: Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

Stall torque is listed as 0.45 N-m for the motor.
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Unread 22-01-2010, 19:16
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Re: Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

For the gearbox, not the motor itself.
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Unread 22-01-2010, 19:32
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Re: Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

To find the torque output of a gearbox, multiply the stall torque of the motor by the inverse of the reduction in speed the gearbox provides.

For example, if the FP motor stalls at .45 N*m, and the gearbox provides a reduction of 1/5, multiply .45 by 5 to get the gearbox torque.
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Last edited by BHS_STopping : 22-01-2010 at 19:34.
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Unread 22-01-2010, 20:26
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Re: Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

A. Last year's gearbox was ~139:1. I haven't taken this years apart to verify yet.

B. This is a great learning opportunity, learning how to do it yourself is going to be the fastest and most reliable route to your answer. Take it apart and count the teeth.
Stage Gear Ratio = Driven Gear / Driving Gear
Multiply the 4 Stage Gear Ratios of the FP trans to get the overall ratio.
The white paper at http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2284 should provide some guidance for getting the gearboxes apart and such.

C. 0.45 N*m is the torque for stall at 70A, don't plan on having that much torque available for any length of time. You can scale it to the 30A torque by multiplying 0.45 N*m by 30A / 70A. There are numerous white papers on this subject.

D. When you get it figured out, post it back here.
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Last edited by kramarczyk : 22-01-2010 at 20:27. Reason: added some punctuation
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Unread 24-01-2010, 14:50
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Re: Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

The gearbox ratio is approximately 125:1.
This would put the F-P motor with gearbox at around 41.5 ft/lbs. Unless I'm crazy. . .
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Unread 24-01-2010, 19:04
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Re: Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodp.jensen View Post
The gearbox ratio is approximately 125:1.
This would put the F-P motor with gearbox at around 41.5 ft/lbs. Unless I'm crazy. . .
Nope, that would be the stall torque of the motor/gearbox assembly. You don't really want to stall the Fisher-Price motor however, it will quickly go up in smoke.

In FRC applications, half of stall torque is usually a good number to design around. You can use the sheet here to figure out how fast the motor spins at that torque.
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Unread 24-01-2010, 20:16
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Re: Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodp.jensen View Post
The gearbox ratio is approximately 125:1
How did you come up with this number?
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Unread 24-01-2010, 20:17
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Re: Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

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Originally Posted by kramarczyk View Post
How did you come up with this number?
He opened up the gearbox and counted the teeth. My team mentors/shares a shop with his and I saw him hard at work counting teeth.
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Unread 24-01-2010, 20:45
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Re: Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikesrock View Post
He opened up the gearbox and counted the teeth. My team mentors/shares a shop with his and I saw him hard at work counting teeth.
Awesome! I just came up with a slightly different number, 122:1. Attached is my counting work from this evening for comparison.
Attached Files
File Type: xls 2010 FP Gearbox.xls (37.5 KB, 115 views)
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Unread 25-01-2010, 09:57
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Re: Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramarczyk View Post
Awesome! I just came up with a slightly different number, 122:1. Attached is my counting work from this evening for comparison.
An exact ratio isn't very important for most FIRST applications. There are a lot of factors in play that make those pristine speed/torque calculations only a rough suggestion. You won't get either the speed or torque that you expect due to frictional losses, voltage drop during a match, manufacturing inconsistencies, directional bias etc. By all means, do the math and use it to design with, but always include a healthy skepticism about your numbers.

I've just used 128:1 in the past to make the math a little easier. I think we arrived at that number many years ago by hooking the motor and gearbox combo up to a charged battery and counting the number of Revs of the output shaft observed in 30 seconds. Then compared that to the specified no-load RPM and rounded off.
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Unread 25-01-2010, 11:01
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Re: Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy A. View Post
An exact ratio isn't very important for most FIRST applications. There are a lot of factors in play that make those pristine speed/torque calculations only a rough suggestion. You won't get either the speed or torque that you expect due to frictional losses, voltage drop during a match, manufacturing inconsistencies, directional bias etc. By all means, do the math and use it to design with, but always include a healthy skepticism about your numbers.

I've just used 128:1 in the past to make the math a little easier. I think we arrived at that number many years ago by hooking the motor and gearbox combo up to a charged battery and counting the number of Revs of the output shaft observed in 30 seconds. Then compared that to the specified no-load RPM and rounded off.
I am not disagreeing that a buffer is required to accommodate variation. How much depends on what you are trying to do.

I am curious if we have the same gearbox with the rumbling about different motor pinions that I have heard. At least one team claims to have received two different gearboxes in the same KoP.

In past seasons I have heard the FP gearbox provided anywhere from 122:1 to 144:1 so I was trying to take the additional steps to back up the numbers provided by including the spreadsheet.
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Unread 25-01-2010, 12:45
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Re: Fisher Price Gearbox Torque

speed is something you can apply a ratio to and get the right answer (a motor spinning at 15000 RPM will have an output speed of 3000RPM after a 5:1 reduction), but torque does not work that way. You need to apply an efficiency factor to the gearset.

I typically use 90-95% PER STAGE for straight spur gear pairs if things are designed right.

I use 85% (again per stage) for planetary gearsets if the ratio for that stage is below 7:1. The efficiency of a planetary gearset falls off sharply with higher ratios so use multiple stages rather than 1 high ratio stage (2 4:1 stages are MUCH more efficient than 1 16:1 stage).

Helical and bevel gears can be much lower than spur gears but they can be pretty close as well, it all depends on how the thrust loads are managed.

Worm gears? Count on 50% is the best you'll get. Many are are 10-20% efficient (i.e. you have to put in 5X to 10X the amount of power into the gearbox as you get out of it).

You really need to keep in mind the "effective" ratio when thinking about torque and gearboxes. A 110:1 gearbox that gets the ratio in 3 spur gear stages will have an effective ratio of between 80 and 95 to 1 depending on the efficiency per stage.

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Last edited by Joe Johnson : 25-01-2010 at 12:47.
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