Kicker mechanism and frame perimeter

[scherbs17]

Hello all,

After reading and re-reading the rules regarding FRAME PERIMETER, we’re still not 100% sure if we are in compliance with the intent of the rules. Our robot FRAME PERIMETER this year is only 28”x 28”, but our kicker design currently rests partially outside the FRAME PERIMETER (but inside the BUMPER PERIMETER) when the robot is unpowered. During normal operation the kicker will remain retracted until we need to kick the ball and therefore we meet the two rules below (letter of the law type thing). Anyone have any thoughts on this?

<R16> During normal operation no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as permitted by Rule <G30>.

<G30> ROBOT Volume – During a MATCH, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as follows:

a. BALL Interaction Volume – Solely for the purposes of interacting with a BALL, MECHANISMS that are below the BUMPER may extend up to the BUMPER PERIMETER, for a period not exceeding two seconds. After returning inside the FRAMER PERIMETER, such MECHANISMS are not permitted to re-extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER for at least two seconds.

Thanks for the help!
Team 1756

[MrForbes]

It sounds like you'll have to change how your kicker works, perhaps how it resets.

If you post some pictures or drawings we might be able to give you some ideas how.

[KGood]

I think the rules are a bit vague about the distance between the frame and bumper perimeter. Just to be safe, I'd move it back those few inches to the inside of the frame.

[Ether]

Originally Posted by scherbs17

Hello all,

After reading and re-reading the rules regarding FRAME PERIMETER, we’re still not 100% sure if we are in compliance with the intent of the rules. Our robot FRAME PERIMETER this year is only 28”x 28”, but our kicker design currently rests partially outside the FRAME PERIMETER (but inside the BUMPER PERIMETER) when the robot is unpowered. During normal operation the kicker will remain retracted until we need to kick the ball and therefore we meet the two rules below (letter of the law type thing). Anyone have any thoughts on this?

<R16> During normal operation no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as permitted by Rule <G30>.

<G30> ROBOT Volume – During a MATCH, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as follows:

a. BALL Interaction Volume – Solely for the purposes of interacting with a BALL, MECHANISMS that are below the BUMPER may extend up to the BUMPER PERIMETER, for a period not exceeding two seconds. After returning inside the FRAMER PERIMETER, such MECHANISMS are not permitted to re-extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER for at least two seconds.

Thanks for the help!
Team 1756

What you describe seems to be in conformance with the rules you quoted. Have you tried posting this question to the "official" Q&A forum at USFIRST to see if you can get a clarification from the GDC? I too would like to hear their answer.

~

[GaryVoshol]

You quoted the rule. Your kicker mechanism can only extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER for 2 seconds at a time, and then must retract. Resting outside the FRAME PERIMETER would not be allowed.

[Ether]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

You quoted the rule. Your kicker mechanism can only extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER for 2 seconds at a time, and then must retract. Resting outside the FRAME PERIMETER would not be allowed.

The OP said it rests outside the FRAME PERIMETER *only when the robot is not powered*. During normal operation it rests inside the FRAME PERIMETER. The GDC will probably rule against it, but there is some room for doubt here.


~

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Ether

The OP said it rests outside the FRAME PERIMETER *only when the robot is not powered*.

I realize that. But NORMAL CONFIGURATION is defined (section 8.2):

NORMAL CONFIGURATION – The physical configuration and orientation of the ROBOT when the MATCH is started. This is the state of the ROBOT immediately before being enabled by the Field Management System, before the ROBOT takes any actions, deploys any mechanisms, or moves away from the starting location. This configuration is static, and does not change during a single MATCH (although it may change from MATCH to MATCH).

(emphasis mine)

Additionally, <R30-a> only allows the 2-second extension "Solely for the purposes of interacting with a BALL". At the beginning of the game, before powering up, you're not interacting with a ball.

[Jones571]

Originally Posted by scherbs17

Hello all,

After reading and re-reading the rules regarding FRAME PERIMETER, we’re still not 100% sure if we are in compliance with the intent of the rules. Our robot FRAME PERIMETER this year is only 28”x 28”, but our kicker design currently rests partially outside the FRAME PERIMETER (but inside the BUMPER PERIMETER) when the robot is unpowered. During normal operation the kicker will remain retracted until we need to kick the ball and therefore we meet the two rules below (letter of the law type thing). Anyone have any thoughts on this?

<R16> During normal operation no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as permitted by Rule <G30>.

<G30> ROBOT Volume – During a MATCH, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as follows:

a. BALL Interaction Volume – Solely for the purposes of interacting with a BALL, MECHANISMS that are below the BUMPER may extend up to the BUMPER PERIMETER, for a period not exceeding two seconds. After returning inside the FRAMER PERIMETER, such MECHANISMS are not permitted to re-extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER for at least two seconds.

Thanks for the help!
Team 1756

I think the safe bet if your kicker works well is just make a larger frame perimeter so you don't have this issue.