Scouting program in the works, need ideas!

[Phoenix Spud]

Originally Posted by Sean Raia

Yes this will be posted on chief delphi when im done. I expect i will be done with it or at least have a beta for you guys in around a week or so... We'll see. And thanks for the idea Pheonix!

No problem! I know that our team hasn't decided how we are going to scout yet, but we will need a system since we will be half way around the world without our whole team. I will bring this up as an idea once we start thinking about how we are going to scout.

[KC1AJT]

the way our scouting system works is fairly complex, a scout records the info onto a custom-made notepad with a form printed on it. This pad is then handed over to a person in our pit, who then logs all of the info into the programs i posted. these programs automatically log and sort the information into an access database for easy access when it comes to the finals.

[Sean Raia]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Spud

No problem! I know that our team hasn't decided how we are going to scout yet, but we will need a system since we will be half way around the world without our whole team. I will bring this up as an idea once we start thinking about how we are going to scout.

Okay, cool!

Originally Posted by computerteen643

the way our scouting system works is fairly complex, a scout records the info onto a custom-made notepad with a form printed on it. This pad is then handed over to a person in our pit, who then logs all of the info into the programs i posted. these programs automatically log and sort the information into an access database for easy access when it comes to the finals.

Your system looks great! What language was that made in, and how long has it taken you to make?

[carbuff2228]

our team has two sheets. I make two sheets one for the pits and one for the stands. The one for the stands has to be way more complex than the one for the pits. The one for the pit is just basically the team tells you what the robot can do. But the stand one you have to be sure people know how to fill it out

[KC1AJT]

Originally Posted by Sean Raia

Okay, cool!


Your system looks great! What language was that made in, and how long has it taken you to make?

it is done in visual basic everything including the database will be done in the next couple weeks

[Martinez]

Might I make a suggestion that may sound a bit controversal?

I suggest adding a line for Pick/No Pick and Why (Offence/Defence/Endgame etc). My experience (over 8 years) is that the hardest thing about Scouting is determing who will work best in your alliance and why. By asking my students what are the particular pros and cons to any potential partner, it gets them thinking in that engineering mind objectively who is the "best" out there but also who might be a "hidden gem." For me in particular it is very difficult to determine a quality second round pick and where I rely the most input from the entire team. By placing such a catagory it really helps shifting through the data at 11:00 PM Sat night.

Also, communicate to your students that Scouting is not just about forming a Pick List. You effectively are the eyes and ears of your team. There is tons of data available but very limited time to gather it in so it is essential to prioritize. Drivers typically only have time to learn about only those teams they have worked/competed with and prepare for the next match, just like a fighter pilot. If your information is quick, compact and well organized then it can provide a solid tactical advantage. My most successful year (Philly 07) with Chuck was primary due to our ablity to feed information from the morning matches directly to the Drivers for the afternoon and beyond.

Its a difficult job that can be highly underated, but if you can explain every team in one to two sentences (weaknesses, strengths and capablities) then that is huge. It will also prove to be a very in demand skill in industry when with the Chief Engineer or major Program Manager and you only has five minutes of his time to get the bottem line.

[Martinez]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

I rarely find value in pit scouting. Other than taking a picture and looking at the drivetrain, I just don't find any value in what teams say about their robot. I'm not saying that every team lies or exaggerates, but I care HOW WELL you can do something not IF you can do it. If you came to our pit in 2007, we would have told you we had ramps. We did, but, I think, we only deployed them twice and never came close to getting anyone elevated. So, a team may have a device to hang, but does it work?

My team hasn't started our scouting discussions yet, but what I will favor is a box that says "Did they hang" and then a general comments section. Thus, we can find out if they score ponts and can write down comments (like, it took them half the match to hang, hung in 5 seconds, tried but ran out of time to hang...) so we know more than just if they did it or not.

QFT. Pit Scouting is what can you do. Field Scouting is how well can you perform. All because they have a kicker, that does not mean it works as well as they had intended or the drivers to pull it off. IMHO it is also important to look at every team over the course of 3-4 matchs in order to get a quality data trend.

[Sean Raia]

my program is going to focus around field scouting. As far as im concerned nothing tells you how good a robot is or how good their strategy works better than seeing it in action.

[seaanenomeenemy]

Also put in number of penalties.

[Galum]

Hmmf here are just a few things that sprang to my mind:

1) Add a part about the drivetrain (e.g omni-directional, can shift gears, pushing strength etc)
2) You need to specify whether the kicker can kick over one bump or two
3) Does the robot have an autonomous mode? Perhaps several? What do they do?
4) How prone are they for fouls? Who commits most of them? Do they carry a yellow card?

[Fennig247]

Well if this helps out at all. I am the scouting mentor/programmer on Da' Bears and last year I devised a prototype program that I gave to a couple teams to test out. Here is a link of it if you would like to see it. I will be giving it out to more teams hopefully this year if they need help but this might help you get an idea. If anyone needs help with scouting, email me at fennig@me.com. Specially if your doing a vb scouting program, great idea btw.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ht=da%27+bears

[KC1AJT]

Originally Posted by Fennig247

Well if this helps out at all. I am the scouting mentor/programmer on Da' Bears and last year I devised a prototype program that I gave to a couple teams to test out. Here is a link of it if you would like to see it. I will be giving it out to more teams hopefully this year if they need help but this might help you get an idea. If anyone needs help with scouting, email me at fennig@me.com. Specially if your doing a vb scouting program, great idea btw.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ht=da%27+bears

I will be contacting you soon asking for some assistance between vb and access

[Sundance Kid]

How about something for Autonomous mode? - like if they were able to get all of their balls out of their areas/section.

Also, while a bit subjective, is how well a team plays defense. Since hanging may only be worth up to 3 points, it may be worth it for teams to block a lifter until the last 20 seconds - they may not have enough time to deploy/climb in that time. Or can they block the tunnel, thereby possibly stranding non-climbing bots. This may be worth a lot more than the 3 points of end game.

Let me know if you need any testers or when a copy is available for other teams to try

[gblake]

Folks,

This is a duplicate of a post I just put into another thread about scouting - If you already saw the other one, you can skip this one.

I'm curious if anyone has tried using the 5th Gear Simulator as a way to test drive their scouting metrics or their scouting recording keeping tools/methods, or their scouts (the humans)?

Imagine this:

• Install 5th Gear on enough computers for 6-player matches.
• Have 12 of your team members pick a simulated robot and stick with that choice.
• Run the 12 players through several 3 vs 3 qualifying matches while the scouts use your team's scouting tools/metrics.
• At the end of the quals see if you have successfully identified the best player-plus-simulated-robot combinations and can agree on their rankings and/or suitability for allying with one another.
• If you are in the mood, do a draft and see how the resulting alliances fare against one another.

5th Gear stores matches and lets you replay them (in the sense of reviewing them), so if scouts are missing important observations, replays can be used to train them; or if scouts are disagreeing about how to evaluate a robot/driver's performance they can look at the replay together and try to reach a consensus.

Finally, while I think this can be a great way to evaluate scouts, metrics and tools, a word of caution is apropos. Remember that a simulation is not reality. At best it is an useful approximation of important aspects of a match and leaves out others. For example, 5th Gear doesn't simulate what happens when a harried pit crew forgets to install a fully charged battery, or when a weak axle or weld bend or breaks under stress during an important match, or ...

Blake
PS: 5th Gear doesn't simulate end-of-game hanging/lifting. To factor this into a scouting exercise; roll dice to see which robots that were in position at the end of a match should be given the bonus points (while the other bots continue to score regular points).
PPS: 5th Gear doesn't assess penalties. Assign a few people to referee duty and let them keep track of penalties if you want that level of realism. They can watch over the shoulders of the players and/o watch the server's monitor.