Go to Post i build robots. i like robots. i live with robots. i love robots. i AM a robot. - tgoral2826 [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2010, 20:22
AccurateFilms AccurateFilms is offline
Registered User
FRC #3161 (Tronic Titans)
Team Role: Human Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 4
AccurateFilms is an unknown quantity at this point
Stair-Step Bumper Design - Legality of Tetris-style bumpers

If my team (3161 Tronic Titans) decides to build a bumper set of 4 Tetris-shaped panels, does this violate the 2010 FRC Robot Regulations? The bumpers would basically be identical to the standard 'overlap' design, but would be offset by 2.5" so that the front of one panel is overtop of the next panel. Here is an illustration in two layers. Imagine one of the images being one plane of pool noodles, and the other image is the second plane. The colours indicate which pool noodles are connected. A side view is also included.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Bottom Layer.png
Views:	19
Size:	2.5 KB
ID:	8385  Click image for larger version

Name:	Top Layer.png
Views:	21
Size:	2.5 KB
ID:	8386  Click image for larger version

Name:	Bumper Side Delphi.png
Views:	17
Size:	11.2 KB
ID:	8387  
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2010, 20:44
Alan Anderson's Avatar
Alan Anderson Alan Anderson is offline
Software Architect
FRC #0045 (TechnoKats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 9,113
Alan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stair-Step Bumper Design - Legality of Tetris-style bumpers

As long as only "soft" components (pool noodle and fabric covering) are used in the half-height extension into the corners, I believe that design satisfies the requirement to protect the corners. But I'm not sure the 5" bumper height rule can be interpreted to permit it.

I'm curious why you'd want to do it that way, though. It seems an unnecessarily complicated shape, and it strikes me as likely to have problems with the narrow bits of bumper getting bent and going outside the bumper zone in normal gameplay.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2010, 21:10
AccurateFilms AccurateFilms is offline
Registered User
FRC #3161 (Tronic Titans)
Team Role: Human Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 4
AccurateFilms is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Stair-Step Bumper Design - Legality of Tetris-style bumpers

The soft parts are definitely the only ones past the corner, but we have determined that this way the impact is distributed along both axes instead of just one. Since the bumper is specified as two pool noodles, with only soft parts past the corner, is this not qualified to be part of the bumper? The backing must be 5", however the soft parts are two 2.5" pool noodles. In our design, both pool noodles are 2.5" and backed by 5x3/4" plywood. However, the corners even allow for a single vertical pool noodle, so why would two 2.5" noodles not be qualified? Could you specify which rule disqualifies this bumper setup?
Also, if we were to have an overlap design (say, the side panels are longer than the ends by 2.5" in each direction), wouldn't it suffer more from bending outward from the bumper zone? In our design, an impact that would normally be exerted on a side panel is partially distributed to the front panel. Here is an illustration.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Overlap.png
Views:	42
Size:	22.5 KB
ID:	8389  Click image for larger version

Name:	Top Layer Deflect.png
Views:	38
Size:	16.4 KB
ID:	8390  
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2010, 21:53
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is online now
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19,813
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stair-Step Bumper Design - Legality of Tetris-style bumpers

It's not the sticking out we're concerned about, it's the fact that the side view shows only one on top and one on bottom in the corner zone.

I can specify a rule that could possibly disallow it: <R07-C>, which specifies a pair of stacked pool noodles. Granted, you meet the spirit. However, if you get a particularly nit-picky lead inspector, you won't meet the letter.

However: If you pay attention, you'll notice that beveling the corners is permitted. This may have the same effect.

You can also ask Q&A. If we say it's legal, and your inspector says it isn't, you'll have to redo your bumpers at the event. If Q&A says it's legal, and your inspector says it isn't, you can show him the Q&A.

I believe that another configuration you might ask about would be simply continuing the pool noodle around the corner, without backing in the corner area. This is shown in Fig. 8-2, but the figures are only for illustrative purposes. I remember seeing it legal, but I can't remember where or when (might have been last year). Ask about that.
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk

Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2010, 22:13
Alan Anderson's Avatar
Alan Anderson Alan Anderson is offline
Software Architect
FRC #0045 (TechnoKats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 9,113
Alan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Stair-Step Bumper Design - Legality of Tetris-style bumpers

<R07L> might be giving a list of the permitted ways to have bumper segments meet, of which the stairstep design is not one. Or it might be giving examples of ways to do it, and not restricting other designs. I won't guess as to which interpretation the GDC intended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AccurateFilms View Post
Also, if we were to have an overlap design (say, the side panels are longer than the ends by 2.5" in each direction), wouldn't it suffer more from bending outward from the bumper zone?
What does "bending outward from the bumper zone" mean? I was referring to possibly bending up and/or down. The BUMPER ZONE is defined by a vertical measurement from the floor of the field.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-01-2010, 09:28
SteveJanesch SteveJanesch is offline
hopes he has enough oomph
FRC #1533 (Triple Strange)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 103
SteveJanesch is a splendid one to beholdSteveJanesch is a splendid one to beholdSteveJanesch is a splendid one to beholdSteveJanesch is a splendid one to beholdSteveJanesch is a splendid one to beholdSteveJanesch is a splendid one to beholdSteveJanesch is a splendid one to behold
Re: Stair-Step Bumper Design - Legality of Tetris-style bumpers

The overlapped bumpers could be bent beyond allowable dimensions up, down, or out, so even if it's legal at inspection it could incur a penalty during match play. If your intent is to distribute impact along two sides of the chassis, some corner bracing connecting two bumper segments above/below the frame should accomplish this. Also, could you build four L-shaped bumper modules to cover half a side, around a corner, and halfway down the next side with some bracing around the corner? Last year we had two U-shaped bumper modules, one for the left and one for the right.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pic: R07-Bumper configuration legality Trevor_Decker Extra Discussion 5 11-01-2010 12:20
R07-Bumper configuration legality Trevor_Decker Rules/Strategy 2 10-01-2010 18:38
Bumper Design Johnny2607 General Forum 2 10-01-2010 16:23
paper: Bumper Legality Flow chart XXShadowXX Extra Discussion 4 30-01-2009 19:01
bumper design bernieseaholm Technical Discussion 7 30-01-2009 16:18


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:17.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi