Can anyone identify these parts?

[Buggy222]

Hey folks,

Team 372 president here. We have the dilema of having the parts in the attached picture, but dont know what they are (yes, we know its a van door motor, but not the rest). If you know anything about the cog or black plastic belt please let us know, we would really like to use it this year, but need to know more about it. Things like the tensile strength of the plastic belt would be really helpful.


Thanks much

Team 372

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Buggy222

Hey folks,

Team 372 president here. We have the dilema of having the parts in the attached picture, but dont know what they are (yes, we know its a van door motor, but not the rest). If you know anything about the cog or black plastic belt please let us know, we would really like to use it this year, but need to know more about it. Things like the tensile strength of the plastic belt would be really helpful.


Thanks much

Team 372

The cog and belt are part of a power window assembly. That may be a helpful start.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Madison

The cog and belt are part of a power window assembly. That may be a helpful start.

The motor is not a Van Door but an early model Window motor. FIRST stopped using this model somewhere before 2005, though I know we had them in '98. Madison is correct that the rest are window drive parts. The plastic belt is sometimes called window tape in auto parts stores. Some versions have wire reinforcement, though I don't think the kit version did. The really impressive thing about the indow tape is not its tensile strength, but its compressive strength. If properly guided it can produce provide a significant force. We used to get the guides with it, you might have one of those running around your shop too without recognizing it.

The motor is of course illegal for this year's robot. If you can find the other parts at an auto parts store they would be legal as COTS devices.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

We have used the belt/tape but not attached to a motor in some robots in the past. It only failed us once in a ref call on a close and very important (Ladder Logic) match. But that is a story for another day.

[MrForbes]

Wow, you guys and gals are good.

Who can identify this motor and stuff?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by squirrel

Wow, you guys and gals are good.

Who can identify this motor and stuff?

I'd say a window motor; I'd also have to say it's one that I've never seen FRC-legal. Probably out of an older vehicle.

The only other FRC-type option is a Van Door motor, but if it is, it's of a type used before my time, or not at all.

The other stuff looks like pipe or conduit.

[M. Hicken]

I finally remembered my old password

Hey all, Im now one of the team 372 mentors. Its been a while since Ive worked with/on anything FIRST related, so this may be a stupid question:

At what point did that old window motor become illegal? I thought that essentially anything given to a team by FIRST in a kit, at any point in history, was still legal on a robot provided it didnt violate any of the technical rules (number of motors for example). The last time I compete was in 2005, so im sure there have been numerous rule and technological changes since then.

After some testing today, the team thinks the plastic tape and cog will work for the design, however things may need to be rethought since we cant use that motor.


cheers

[EricH]

Originally Posted by M. Hicken

At what point did that old window motor become illegal? I thought that essentially anything given to a team by FIRST in a kit, at any point in history, was still legal on a robot provided it didnt violate any of the technical rules (number of motors for example). The last time I compete was in 2005, so im sure there have been numerous rule and technological changes since then.

It became illegal when it was no longer provided in the KOP. The current rule <R53> has been around in some form since my early days, which were around 2005. The KOP is, at least this year, defined as the parts provided in 2010.

[MrForbes]

I guess Eric didn't get to work at an auto salvage yard part time while going to school?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by squirrel

I guess Eric didn't get to work at an auto salvage yard part time while going to school?

Nope.

[M. Hicken]

Thatll do it. Sadly I haven't had the time to reacquaint myself with the rules, and honestly even whats in the kit.
Thats what I get for assuming the old window motors were still provided.

Looks like the kids on the team get to design some new parts to work with some newer motors.

thanks for the clarification Eric

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Jim,
I am going to guess it's a wiper motor and linkage. I remember seeing something like it but I can't remember the vehicle. Chevy pickup I think.

Paco,
The only allowed motors are those provided in the kit plus the few additions that are specified in the rules Section 8. You can use the tape if it is still available to all teams as a COTS (off the shelf) item.

[rsisk]

I'm curious why this rule doesn't apply, assuming it is unaltered, to make the window motor from the first post legal?

<R33> COTS items from ROBOTS entered in previous FIRST competitions or COTS items that are
no longer commercially available may be used under the following conditions:
A. The item must be functionally equivalent to the original condition as delivered from the
VENDOR (e.g. a part that has non-functional label markings added would be permitted,
but a part that has device-specific mounting holes added would be prohibited), and
B. The item must satisfy ALL applicable 2010 FRC materials/parts use rules.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by rsisk

I'm curious why this rule doesn't apply, assuming it is unaltered, to make the window motor from the first post legal?

<R33> ...
B. The item must satisfy ALL applicable 2010 FRC materials/parts use rules.

B fails rules

<R52> Motors specifically permitted on 2010 FRC ROBOTS include:

and

<R53> Items specifically PROHIBITED from use on the ROBOT include:
A. Electric motors and/or servos different from, or in addition to, those in the KOP, with the exception of those specifically permitted by Rule <R52>.
B. Electric solenoid actuators (note: electric solenoid actuators are NOT the same as pneumatic solenoid valves – the latter are permitted, the former are not).

[rsisk]

Thanks for the clarification