2010 5th Gear FRC Match Simulator

[Chris is me]

I was wondering why the robots with holonomic wheels weren't moving sideways... Silly me. I'll have to plug in a controller and play some Tumblewhat Tumbleweed now. I bet I could hit 25 points with a holonomic drive, since I preferred the tunnel to the bumps in all my record Kicker runs anyway.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I was wondering why the robots with holonomic wheels weren't moving sideways... Silly me. I'll have to plug in a controller and play some Tumblewhat Tumbleweed now. I bet I could hit 25 points with a holonomic drive, since I preferred the tunnel to the bumps in all my record Kicker runs anyway.

... And you claim that you don't have a full and exciting life??? I think this thread supplies plenty of evidence to refute any such assertion.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by gblake

... And you claim that you don't have a full and exciting life??? I think this thread supplies plenty of evidence to refute any such assertion.

Fair enough, you win...

Though I've noticed the holonomic is really slippery. Even hitting a freely moving soccer ball will throw me 90 degrees out of whack. I know omni drives can sometimes be like that, but maybe a little more friction in the next revision? That or make it so you can strafe sideways with the ball instead of weirdly orbiting it. I've tried to grab the ball and slide sideways in front of the goal only to be turned in that weird way so many times now...

Also, kicking and moving is hard without shoulder mounted ball manipulation. Other than that though, driving holonomic is... addicting

[Foda]

I would like to see the option for WSAD and the ability to assign custom controls. I was also disappointed that it was not open source. Our team's programmers (and I) wanted to build/add to the program but we could not. I think it would be in the FIRST spirit to release this as open source.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Foda

I would like to see the option for WSAD and the ability to assign custom controls.

Can you be a little more specific about the WSAD part of this request? I think we do have WSAD controls available, so I'm not sure what you meant in the first clause of the request.

About assigning custom controls - That is a good suggestion; but it does take time to accomplish - It will certainly go on our list of things to improve.

Blake

[JesseK]

So, Chris, have you ever tried to run the sim from the driver's station point of view? It's much harder that way. I've only been able to get 11 so far.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by JesseK

So, Chris, have you ever tried to run the sim from the driver's station point of view? It's much harder that way. I've only been able to get 11 so far.

The driver station view is actually backwards, it's less helpful than I'd like.

I play the default view for scoring runs. Top down isn't centered, otherwise I'd always play that. I'll see how well I can do with the DS view sometime.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

The driver station view is actually backwards, it's less helpful than I'd like.

I play the default view for scoring runs. Top down isn't centered, otherwise I'd always play that. I'll see how well I can do with the DS view sometime.

Sounds like a few more things to double check.

[playbass06]

Very cool! This definitely makes me wish I had a better graphics card... (averaging maybe about 10 fps on a GeForce 7150M, which also, unfortunately, doesn't support such awesome features as PhysX [it seems to emulate, or perhaps replace it with some other physics engine, though] or CUDA)

I see the field worked well for you, I like what you've done! My lack of programming skills has set me back on my version, but it's still fun. A Linux/Mac compatible port would be something to look into, but it would of course have to be limited to OpenGL graphics, which plain isn't as fast as DirectX/Direct3D.
I added some GLSL shaders into mine, which makes it look better, but sets it way back speed-wise (say, from 30 to 7 fps...).

Now, is the XNA framework free, or is it licensed, similar to the $99 for an iPhone Dev license? I've also been thinking of using a better program for later projects, say, the UDK, which looks promising, if you know the scripting language.
XNA could not only allow you to port to Xbox 360, but also to Zune, it appears!

[lachoneus8]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

The driver station view is actually backwards, it's less helpful than I'd like.

Yeah, unfortunately the code is pretty hardcoded to have the views where they are in the game world, and we have the field layed out backwards from the game world. We'll get it fixed, hopefully without another ugly hack!

Originally Posted by playbass06

which also, unfortunately, doesn't support such awesome features as PhysX [it seems to emulate, or perhaps replace it with some other physics engine, though] or CUDA)

PhysX emulates in software what it can't do in hardware. Very nice feature. It also has a very open liscense.

Originally Posted by playbass06

I see the field worked well for you

Yes, thank you very much! Just resized a couple things to match the spec, but other then that it worked out of the box. You'll see yourself in the credits at the end of a game.

Originally Posted by playbass06

A Linux/Mac compatible port would be something to look into, but it would of course have to be limited to OpenGL graphics, which plain isn't as fast as DirectX/Direct3D.

The bigger problem is engine. There aren't too many good engines that support Linux for indie-style liscensing. Most that do use C++, which is a great language but also one not ideal for rapid development. One I've looked into is Ogre3d, which we might look to at some point, but a change of engine would take quite a bit of work so is not on the near horizon. We'd like to iterate on what we already have first.

Originally Posted by playbass06

Now, is the XNA framework free, or is it licensed, similar to the $99 for an iPhone Dev license? I've also been thinking of using a better program for later projects, say, the UDK, which looks promising, if you know the scripting language.
XNA could not only allow you to port to Xbox 360, but also to Zune, it appears!

Completely free. MS likes having indie developers bring more content to Xbox 360s, zunes. XNA is a fabulous dev kit, allows for rapid development like none other, without being hampered in power and flexibility. I highly recommend it.

[playbass06]

Honestly, for rapid development, Blender is one of the best I've used. I mean, you have one, under 40 MB, program that can model, animate, render, script (with Python), and create games.
And for scripting, you really don't have to. There's a visually based "Logic Brick" system, which basically works with three sections of Sensors, Controllers, and Actuators. Fast enough to use, while easy to learn, but keeping enough flexibility to work better than those "click-to-create" programs. It's still rather limited, but works on all OS's (Windows, Mac, Linux, Solaris, and Irix!). Unfortunately, I have yet to figure out how to create games that will run on all systems without giving the actual .blend (Blender's file format) out, which would also give them every asset used in the game.
The main drawback is a very different layout, but it doesn't take too long to get used to.

I will look into XNA, though, it sounds very promising!

[gblake]

Folks - We are planning to put some Controller explanations into the Robot Selection screens. These images are the candidates we have right now - Are they understandable? - Blake

[Bill_B]

I tried running a one-robot match. Two instances of the program. After the 135 seconds everything stopped and both instances would only exit without being able to run another round. I presume I have missed something, 'cause trotting into the server room to start each round just won't cut it.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

I tried running a one-robot match. Two instances of the program. After the 135 seconds everything stopped and both instances would only exit without being able to run another round. I presume I have missed something, 'cause trotting into the server room to start each round just won't cut it.

5th Gear runs one game at a time. It's really not that bad.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

I tried running a one-robot match. Two instances of the program. After the 135 seconds everything stopped and both instances would only exit without being able to run another round. I presume I have missed something, 'cause trotting into the server room to start each round just won't cut it.

Bill,

There are two subjects in your message - One is that everything stopped at 135. Can you get us the log files and configuration info (DirectX, Graphics cards, PhysX, XNA, OS and SP level, .Net) for your computers?

The other is your comment about trotting into the server room. Well, you shouldn't have to reboot computers between matches if that is what you meant, but you will have to push a button or two on the 5G server-software's GUI.

If that server-software GUI is being shown outside your server room, then I think you will be OK. If that GUI gets seen only in your server room, then you have a situation that doesn't match our typical set-up.

I can imagine us creating a simple "remote" GUI that could be used to control the server-software from across a LAN. It would take a few hours to create and would pay off in some situations, but we don't have that feature right now.

Let us know about the log and configuration info, and about whether your set-up is one that needs a remote GUI for 5th Gear's server-software.

Blake