Reasoning of the GDC

[coldfusion1279]

I would be curious to see what percentage of active teams have a member that is dedicated to checking CD forums or Q&A etc.

If there is a problem with information about relaying finer points of rules to the entire FIRST community, then maybe they should take a different approach to clarifying rules. I don't know what the next step is... emailing everybody everything seems a bit excessive, but something like this?

I do not think one can blame teams for trying work around the rules a little.

We do not have the luxury of other sports where the rules are consistent and fine tuned after years, yes YEARS of gameplay and critique. Every year in FIRST, there are going to be minor inconsistencies or unclear statements in the rules that could dramatically effect the game play.

A PERFECT example of this is the 2006 AIM HIGH game, in which there was a speed limit on initial ball velocity out of the shooter for safety reasons. I never recall any checks on actual ball velocity during competition, but I remember our team followed the rule strictly, while other bots had the ball flying out twice as fast.... Teams that shot at higher velocity could shoot from further... I know shooting faster could have helped many teams.

Could that be the difference between the horizontal component of velocity and velocity regardless of direction? Maybe... Was this ever explicitly clarified by the GDC? Maybe, I don't remember, but even if it was, our team never would have known because our team didn't have avid subscribers to Q&A forums back then...

My point is that both of these opinions are correct. "Lawyering" could lead to unfair advantages, so the GDC tries to set a rule on everything, even valves, just for consistency reasons. However, questioning the rules could be the only way to make the game better for everyone... point out inconsistencies in game play, as well as allowing your team to design an optimal and legal robot for the season.

Anyway, I need to get back to work...

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by coldfusion1279

A PERFECT example of this is the 2006 AIM HIGH game, in which there was a speed limit on initial ball velocity out of the shooter for safety reasons. I never recall any checks on actual ball velocity during competition, but I remember our team followed the rule strictly, while other bots had the ball flying out twice as fast.... Teams that shot at higher velocity could shoot from further... I know that would have

Inspectors had access to a ball velocity test jig and used it frequently. Inspectors and refs were in constant contact to check teams coming off the field to insure that this specification was met. We take our jobs seriously.

[coldfusion1279]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Inspectors had access to a ball velocity test jig and used it frequently. Inspectors and refs were in constant contact to check teams coming off the field to insure that this specification was met. We take our jobs seriously.

Interesting, I guess my memory is a little foggy, my apologies, and there was no intent of ragging on judges for skipping checkpoints. I merely thought it was an 'honors system' type arrangement.

Nonetheless my point remains: our team thought we were following the rule very carefully, when clearly we could have enhanced our shooter even further.

Questioning rules allows more latitude in the creative thought process, but can offer unfair advantages to those who are privy to rule updates and discussion.

Like I said, it would be interesting to see what percentage of teams have someone avidly follow CD or Q&A etc.

[Aren_Hill]

Originally Posted by coldfusion1279

Interesting, I guess my memory is a little foggy, my apologies, and there was no intent of ragging on judges for skipping checkpoints. I merely thought it was an 'honors system' type arrangement.

Nonetheless my point remains: our team thought we were following the rule very carefully, when clearly we could have enhanced our shooter even further.

Questioning rules allows more latitude in the creative thought process, but can offer unfair advantages to those who are privy to rule updates and discussion.

Like I said, it would be interesting to see what percentage of teams have someone avidly follow CD or Q&A etc.

They definitely had speed testers that year, consistency between regionals would be one thing that may have varied. In St. Louis our team had many complaints from others about "shooting too fast" and we spent ~2 hours at that test rig proving we didnt. Turns out alot of backspin creates a flatter trajectory, who knew