What is "FIRST"?

[Rion Atkinson]

It has come to my attention that not everyone understands what FIRST is about. Some think that this FIRST organization is about the competition, and about winning. My head coach said just the other day “Boeing and our other sponsors give us money so that we can win”, but this is not the reason. Our sponsors give us money not so that we can win, not for the advertisement*, but for the chance of better employees.

This organization was not created for us students to have another sport to play in. It was created for us to learn, for us to understand how things in the real world will work, and how to deal with it. For us to be able to think deeply and solve problems, but this focus is being lost. Our students and mentors alike are beginning to lose focus. I am not saying this is happening everywhere. Just here and there.**

What is FIRST?

For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology means just that. It does not mean let’s win by any means. It does not mean that we are here to get out of the house. It means we are here to Inspire! We are not here to say “Let’s win this!” We are here to say “Let’s learn this!” So why can we not keep that thought? Why is it that all the mentors on my team care more about us willing than us learning? Why do these mentors take the idea of “telling, not helping” when they mentor us? How can we keep this thought process?

When my Head Coach says “We are given money to have a better chance of winning, am I right Rion?” and I reply “No, we are given money so that we have a better chance of learning” and he gets mad, it honestly scares me. And when I talk to him later in the meeting and explain what FIRST is in my opinion and how this team is not showing that, and that our students are not learning as much as they could be because the mentors are hindering them his response was “Well. I’m sorry you feel that way. But you are a different kind of person.“ And I am pretty sure that my team is not the only one going off track. Am I correct? If not, please, by all means delete this thread. But I am not here to tell you what is going on, I am here to ask you how to fix it.

How can we keep our team members, and mentors alike, on track as to what FIRST is? How can we ensure that our students will learn to the best of their ability? Does anyone have any ideas? Because I am personally out of all of my ideas, I keep just hitting brick walls. I have been called crazy because of my understanding of why we are here. Am I the problem? Is it that my idea of FIRST’s purpose is mistaken?

I do apologize if it sounds like I am just throwing my dirty laundry out there to dry, I am not meaning to. This was really the only way I say to get my point across, and ask for help.

In confusion,
-Rion

*Let's be real, they don’t get very much advertisement from this.
**I know that the majority of teams at the OKC regional are losing focus. Or just never had it, we are still a young regional.

[delsaner]

People have different opinions, you cannot deny that, but I completely understand and agree with your statement. I mean, it is nice to win but that is not at all the main concern, in my point of view. It is all about the experience, and learning different things that can have an impact on technology later on in life.

This is my first year on the CAD team, coming from knowing nothing about Autodesk the year before, to feeling like I know so much. Actually looking back, I cannot believe how much I have learned in such a short period of time. When I work with Inventor, I feel like this is a skill that can help me later in life; I feel myself solving problems that could have meant severe results if not double-checked or if the problems were ignored.

As for helping people see what FIRST is truly about, I am not sure it is something that can be solved. It is difficult to tell someone who thinks they have the right idea that their idea is wrong. If I think of any ways that could help, I will get back to you (I will probably post again of this thread).

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Formerly Famous

I do apologize if it sounds like I am just throwing my dirty laundry out there to dry, I am not meaning to. This was really the only way I say to get my point across, and ask for help.

While your intent is certainly good, I would be pretty upset and embarrassed if I were your head coach right now. I'm not sure apologizing to us is the correct action.

FIRST's main goal is not really about learning. As FIRST stands for it is about Inspiration and Recognition not teaching/learning. I believe Dean made this point at kickoff, saying that teaching should stay in the classrooms and schools.

Given the main goal of FIRST is to inspire, then as long as the students are inspired, I don't think there is any problems with mentors building the entire robot to win. Obviously, I would not choose to run a team this way, but I think it is a valid approach. I think each team needs to decide on what is the best way to maximize inspiration. Is it a mentor built robot, a 100% student built or a partnership?

I do think the "how do we get people to view the true mission of FIRST" conversation is a very good one.

[sanddrag]

What I'd do is after the season, create a team project that has no competitive aspect. Such as building a go-kart, or robotic lawnmower.

[Rion Atkinson]

Originally Posted by delsaner

People have different opinions, you cannot deny that, but I completely understand and agree with your statement. I mean, it is nice to win but that is not at all the main concern, in my point of view. It is all about the experience, and learning different things that can have an impact on technology later on in life.

This is my first year on the CAD team, coming from knowing nothing about Autodesk the year before, to feeling like I know so much. Actually looking back, I cannot believe how much I have learned in such a short period of time. When I work with Inventor, I feel like this is a skill that can help me later in life; I feel myself solving problems that could have meant severe results if not double-checked or if the problems were ignored.

As for helping people see what FIRST is truly about, I am not sure it is something that can be solved. It is difficult to tell someone who thinks they have the right idea that their idea is wrong. If I think of any ways that could help, I will get back to you (I will probably post again of this thread).

I agree, everyone will have their own view as to what FIRST is, and what it's purpose is. CAD is truly something that can be an amazing help in the design process. I find myself making mistake all the time, it really helps me. And to learn it in such a short time period is amazing.

I'm going to have to agree. It is most likely something that can not be solved, for the very reason you stated. No one thinks the same. But it's for this very reason that two heads are better than one.

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

While your intent is certainly good, I would be pretty upset and embarrassed if I were your head coach right now. I'm not sure apologizing to us is the correct action.

FIRST's main goal is not really about learning. As FIRST stands for it is about Inspiration and Recognition not teaching/learning. I believe Dean made this point at kickoff, saying that teaching should stay in the classrooms and schools.

Given the main goal of FIRST is to inspire, then as long as the students are inspired, I don't think there is any problems with mentors building the entire robot to win. Obviously, I would not choose to run a team this way, but I think it is a valid approach. I think each team needs to decide on what is the best way to maximize inspiration. Is it a mentor built robot, a 100% student built or a partnership?

I do think the "how do we get people to view the true mission of FIRST" conversation is a very good one.

you are correct. But I could think of no other way to get my point across. But are we not warned to be careful what we say? (I don't mean to sound cruel, but I have learned to always watch what I say.)

I agree. Teaching should stay in the classrooms. But learning should not. I will never stop learning. Are you trying to tell me that if I am to learn I should stay in a classroom all my life?

And while everyone has there own way of inspiring their students. What if there way of doing is not inspiring at all? Because I know for sure that I am not inspired by them. I am inspired instead by the thought of what I learn here, will follow me the rest of my life. But it dwindles more and more every time I hear a mentor say "Well that wont work. And here is why. (yay! A chance to learn! ) Now, you can do what I say. Or you can fail(Well now that's just rude... I don't think you are really helping me out here...)"

And when you say "I do think the "how do we get people to view the true mission of FIRST" conversation is a very good one." I am trying to figure out if you forgot the "not" in there somewhere. No offense.

Originally Posted by sanddrag

What I'd do is after the season, create a team project that has no competitive aspect. Such as building a go-kart, or robotic lawnmower.

I would love to do that! Except our mentors are to worn out to do anything over the summer... Though I may still try and see if I can get something going this year... Thanks for the tip.

-Rion

[Jones571]

Let me start by saying that by i am glad to see you still understand why we are all here to inspire youth challenge them and have more fun than any one could imagine by learning in leaps and bounds.

In my 7 or so years in FIRST it isn’t about the "w" it is about what I learned about engineering, team work, manufacturing, communication, dealing with stress, and most importantly networking and making friends and connections that will last a life time. I am now back mentoring a team that I helped build and lead when I was in high school.

How do you change the direction of your team... Influence those around you and keep inspiring and challenging the underclassmen who are new to the program, challenge the upper classmen who know less then you to try harder and learn more. That is how you change the direction of the team and make sure the ones who follow will continue working towards the goals of FIRST and understand why we put ourselves through this cruel 6 week torture we call "build". Wining a regional and awards are a fantastic feeling but if you can’t say you have are a better person then you have taken nothing form your experience in FIRST. I’m sure there is more to add but after a long night of build this is all i have. Hope it helps

-Corey

[FlyingHedgeHog]

I don't think I'm capable of typing too much as of now, (It's 11:15 where I am) but I'll offer my advice. A LOT of positive peer pressure can come from other teams. Encourage your team to interact with other teams at the regional, if they see how much fun other teams are having, and if they see that most people will cheer for the other team, it could have a great influence on your team. I know my team introduced a "Mentors hands off" policy it's FIRST year. (Pun intended) We also have taken the motto "Student designed, student built, Mentor approved" to heart. This helps a ton on our team, everything is all up to the students--the mentors let us succeed, or fail on our own and it teaches us so much. We fail a lot, but as was once said: "You learn more from your failures than successes."

[Tom Line]

FIRST is what you make of it.

Sponsors use it as a way to:
1. Garner public good will
2. Make their names known in engineering communities
3. Prepare potential engineers

Mentors use it as a way to:
1. Give back to the community
2. Teach
3. Enjoy free-form engineering where creativity, spontanaeity, and collaboration are actually applauded
4. Have a good time acting like highschoolers
5. Go on field trips
6. Improve their resume'

Students use it as a way to:
1. Improve their resume'
2. Learn about engineering
3. Go and field trips and get out of a couple days of school a year
4. Grow a network of friends that will last a lifetime
5. Have a great set of stories for college
etc.

What is FIRST? Well, first you have to tell me about whom we're talking. Everyone is motivated differently, and you have to understand their motivation to understand what FIRST is, from their point of view.

[Taylor]

Sounds like a lot of people fell asleep through the first hour and a half of kickoff. Many people critical to the past, present, and future of FIRST took turns saying what you said.
Every year it disappoints me when I look around the lecture hall where several teams gather for kickoff and I see many people talking, texting, or sleeping. If Mr. Kamen, Dr. Flowers, Mr. Lavery, Mr. Abele, Mr. Gudonis, and all those other fine folks didn't think the I was important, they wouldn't have spent so bloody much time with it, and they wouldn't have used it to start kickoff.