Religion

[Ashley Weed]

Ok, I follow and understand that. And I have thought of that as possibilities before. However, with understanding this, he goes to church just as others do, however it is a non-denominational church? What do they believe then? He says he believes in the bible and God, etc. however, he does not have a denomination. Aren't you automatically put into a denomination by what you say, hear, study and believe? How can you say you believe all of this but not believe in a denomination when there aren't that many differences within Christianity? If you are being preached something, it has to follow a specific belief and denomination in my mind. It just happens, even it you don't intend it to be specific, it will still fall into the charecterization of a denomination.

[Trashed20]

Originally posted by weedie
Ok, I follow and understand that. And I have thought of that as possibilities before. However, with understanding this, he goes to church just as others do, however it is a non-denominational church? What do they believe then? He says he believes in the bible and God, etc. however, he does not have a denomination. Aren't you automatically put into a denomination by what you say, hear, study and believe? How can you say you believe all of this but not believe in a denomination when there aren't that many differences within Christianity? If you are being preached something, it has to follow a specific belief and denomination in my mind. It just happens, even it you don't intend it to be specific, it will still fall into the charecterization of a denomination.

I think you can believe but not be associated with anything. You don't need to go to church and have a man read the bible to you, you don't have to sing, you don't need communion. They are all man made items with no real affect on you as a person even if you think they do. You can stay in your home and pray if you want. If you think that "he" is out there then thats all you need. Besides, you should be glad that he is actually going to church, don't discriminate about what kind. Church is just a place to gather for people that believe, it doesn't matter in what.

[Ashley Weed]

Originally posted by Trashed20


I think you can believe but not be associated with anything. You don't need to go to church and have a man read the bible to you, you don't have to sing, you don't need communion. They are all man made items with no real affect on you as a person even if you think they do. You can stay in your home and pray if you want. If you think that "he" is out there then thats all you need. Besides, you should be glad that he is actually going to church, don't discriminate about what kind. Church is just a place to gather for people that believe, it doesn't matter in what.

Yes I understand this, and I do understand that I should be happy that he goes to church. I am happy that he does, and it does not bother me that he chooses to go to a non-denominational church. However, I wish I knew more on what he specifically believes, only so I can better understand him. I guess that I am going to just have to leave it as that he believes in God, the bible, and goes to church. I guess this means that he is Christian? However, I will never understand the difference between denominations; either between mine and his or mine and others in general.

[Chris Nowak]

Originally posted by Trashed20


I know that this may come accross in a bad way but that is just following blindly. It would be like saying "Don't question Hitler! He is the leader and knows more than we do so we shouldn't wonder if killing jews is wrong." It just kinda seems like an ignorant statement, but nothing personal, just in general.

Its Faith, the foundation of every religion IMO. I mean, if you believe there is a god who created the earth and the universe, you must acknowledge his infinite powers and knowledge. There are many things beyond our comprehension. The way anything with infinite knowledge acts is beyond our comprehension. I don't feel anyone could make these same claims about Hitler.

Faith is following blindly, in a way.

[Trashed20]

Originally posted by Chris Nowak


Its Faith, the foundation of every religion IMO. I mean, if you believe there is a god who created the earth and the universe, you must acknowledge his infinite powers and knowledge. There are many things beyond our comprehension. The way anything with infinite knowledge acts is beyond our comprehension. I don't feel anyone could make these same claims about Hitler.

Faith is following blindly, in a way.

But we have seen what following blindly in the past has done. It has caused wars and hate and pain and fear. Some religions do this too. I would have thought that humans being as advanced as they are could benifit from previous experiences, not continue to do them. People can have faith in others, but i just think that we should not give out such faith like it is inexhaustable. If you have faith in someone, you trust them and probalby know them pretty good. How well do most people know god and religion?

Also, how do you know that god has infinite powers and knowledge?

[Katie Reynolds]

Faith:

1) Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2) Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
3) Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4) often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5) The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6) A set of principles or beliefs.

^There's your dictionary definition(s)...^

- Katie

[Madison]

Religion: Book 1.

I tried my best to kill this thread early on, though I am surprised with the civility to the discussion thus far. I suppose that, in my first attempt, I wasn’t verbose or encompassing enough to do what I set out to do.

Just for that, you all get to suffer through my point of view. You brought this upon yourselves, so no complaining now.

Further, I may go ahead and quote some of you, or other sources. It’s nothing personal, really, so don’t get all in a huff if you feel I’m inaccurately portraying you or your attitudes. It’s more for the purpose of illustrating how things might be misconstrued, rather than them actually being misconstrued.

I make no claim to be right, encompassing, or representative of anyone but myself. I will, up front, admit to the innate hypocrisy in a lot of what I am about to write. I apologize in advance. I can think of no better way. Also, I’m going to make an attempt at being critical of all religions, but my life experiences have centered around Roman Catholicism, so that may be where most of my examples or prejudices lie.

Aren’t disclaimers fun? You always need them when it comes to religion.

Who is anyone to question him? Hes God!

I was worried I wouldn’t have an opening statement, too.

Dictionary.com defines ‘entitlement’ as, “A government program that guarantees and provides benefits to a particular group.” Consider, for a moment, that the ‘government’ modifier is extraneous and unnecessary given the common usage of the word, and keep that in mind as I continue.

In my opinion, Chris’ post reeks of entitlement. While he is certainly not alone in this trait, nor inherently guilty, his example was concise enough to be chosen for my little diatribe. Let’s take for granted, if only for a moment, that some of the implied (and stated, but perhaps excluded) truths that form the foundation of this argument are gospel (intended, yes). God exists. God is beyond our comprehension.

If such is the case, it seems clear enough to me that man the opinion of man is inconsequential against the word of God. That, for all of the scientific reasoning, knowledge, and inference that we possess, our level of understanding of the world and universe around us is, at best, naïve, and at worse, misguided. With that said, I can think of no legitimate, convincing, conclusive reason to give any worth, credit, or value to Chris’ argument.

See, Chris is, last I saw, human. Most who believe in God, to my knowledge, are human. So, in my mind, there exists an inherent dose of entitlement in the tenable position of all who follow religion – myself, perhaps, included.

I can see already that what I’ve written is a bit obtuse, so let me make one last attempt at clarifying myself before I move on to other, more important things. To claim the will of God as justification for nearly any cause is an infinitely defensible position. It is, after all, the implicit absoluteness of a God that defies reason, and thus, disallows anyone who argues with the support of God to be wrong. However, I am not speaking absolutely, in the apocalyptic, judgmental sort of way. Instead, I am talking about meager, simple discussions such as these.

For those who try to reason, there is logic. For those who follow God, there seems to be no reason. There is only God. There is no argument, nor hypocrisy, nor enlightenment. There is only the word of God, an incomprehensible being, as interpreted by man. There is only entitlement.

In this point, I, as the Devil’s advocate, and others, as the followers of God, each have an advantage. They all take solace in knowing that their word of God is truth, and I take comfort in realizing the futility of everything I’ve written, and expecting little to come from it.

To fairly acknowledge other sides of this issues, the statement,

“…here we are blindly following a devine being without knowledge of existance and a lack of imperial evidence.

[sic] was made as well, and is no less guilty of such entitled behavior. Instead of God, replace all I’ve said above with Science.
It’s odd how my attempt at clarification took nearly as long as my original point, huh? Oh well.

[Madison]

I’ve found, through a great deal of introspection, that faith is a powerful word that carries with it a great deal of meaning and emotion, whether we all realize such or not. It is the singular word that embraces the core tenets of our lives, and as such, it is oft not spoken lightly. After all, who here wants their existence devalued, or worse, dehumanized, by having that faith misappropriated, misinterpreted, or misunderstood? It is a very personal matter that, to the best of my exploration, cannot be easily explained through words, or actions, or their eventual combination.

It is after a great deal of introspection, and after having been raised Roman Catholic that I have decided to place my faith in humanity.

The single thing that has frightened me most about my decision, and about the value of humanity as it now exists, has been the use of religion of all denominations as a tool of manipulation, power, and oppression. Again, that’s not to suggest that, on the whole, religion is without value, but that I am deeply concerned with how it has been used by the masses, the strong, and the powerful, to subjugate and diminish to contribution and potential of all else.

In the name of god, wars have been waged; genocide committed, and horrible acts justified. In the shame of the past, and in the heat of the moment, history is shrouded beneath a veil of cultural near-sightedness and religious fervor. Like government, religion participates in campaigns of disinformation designed, meticulously so, aimed at increasing their influence, power, and reach. Again, while not wholly true of all religious believers, religion and fear of god has been the tool that allows man to make attempts at elevating himself above all others.

It is not in the power of God that I hold doubt, nor in the logic of Science. But, rather, it is within the world of Man that I have both placed and lost my faith.

It is how, irrespective of empirical study, historical scripture, or bona-fide miracles, individuals have manipulated the idea of God in the interest of their own pursuits that shocks me more than anything else I’ve ever known. How Man has corrupted the pure image of a benevolent god in the name of ratings, crass commercialism, and the tyranny of the masses.

The propagandized, fear tactics used by some individuals in the name of religion, such as this flyer (graphic and disturbing) sent to high school children in Kansas, or the Westboro Baptist Church (, in its entirety, are exemplar uses of religion as a tool of power over others that I have seen personally. It is not the place of any man, no matter how pious they perceive themselves to be, to speak in the name of God, nor as God’s interpreter.

(…the homosexual agenda strikes again…)

Or, maybe, it just makes sense. Maybe not.

The examples are numerous, while the point is the same.

In the end, I live each day with the true intent of making the world a better place. Some days, I do better than others, but it is among my moral convictions that I should never place myself above any other, nor allow myself to be dominated by the popular culture.

I have nothing but admiration for those who can unquestioningly place their faith, love, and life in the hands of a superior being. I envy the strength and conviction they each possess in understanding the supremacy of a supernatural being, and in holding steadfastly and true to their teaching. I hope that, someday, I might feel so intensely about someone or something that I may, with all of my passion, devote myself to that cause. The knowledge and conviction of being right, righteous, and content, must be powerful.

Given my life experiences, I’m hesitant to find truth or comfort in religion, both because of its history as well as its potential. It is a power much too great for me to wield.

“Absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Religion is corrupt. (Thanks for the seed, there, Jim.)

Instead, I’ll live my life as I have, doing my best to brighten people’s day, help them through their troubles, and maybe impart a bit of wisdom about how to do the same to others. If there is a god that should choose to punish me because of the clothes I wear, the way I speak, or because I don’t attend church each Sunday and praise, there’s nothing I can do about it. I’ll be the first to admit, I screwed up.

If, however, there’s some guy who is so presumptuous as to assume he knows the word of God, and he tells me that I’m going to Hell because of who I am, where I come from, or what I’m doing, he can respectfully eat my shorts.

[jon]

MMMMmmmmMMMMmmmm..... shorts.

[srawls]

The New American Bible, which is weird that they would make a specific AMERICAN edition

Why? Do you think everyone in America should learn hebrew and latin? And what of the people in France, is it wrong to have a French edition?

t says "Then God said 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.'" Now that makes me think either God is multiple entities, or we aren't made in God's own image after all, but a combination of all the creature that it made summed up in one. I guess. I'm still trying to interpret it.

How 'bout this: God was with the angels he created, he created them in his image and us too.

My question is, if humanity was so corrupted by evil that God was willing to destroy its most precious creation (or at least that's what is sounds like) WHY DIDN'T IT CREATE A DIFFERENT PROTOTYPE HUMAN THAT COULDN'T BE AS CORRUPTED BY EVIL?? I don't get it.

How 'bout this: God gave us all FREE WILL. He did this because he loves us, and if we didn't have free will then we would be nothing more than the robots we create for FIRST (in a way). As long as we can choose what we do, then some are going to choose evil. Let's face it, sometimes evil is enticing, it lures you into it, so people turn to it.

I hope I've worded the above not to offend anyone or to assume that they believe what I wrote. I'm just providing an interpretation to the bible, not trying to tell you that it happened that way.

Stephen

[Chris Nowak]

dang Michael, are you tired?

Yeah, i should say that all that stuff is MY personal belief and as such probably shouldn't have been used to counter an argument...

But, in my opinion, the bible should not all be taken literally, such as the story of Noah. I follow the bible, but not to the letter.
I think the stories in it demonstrate a general Idea and basically should be taken the same way a fairy tale should be, find the moral of the story.

I feel church denominations come second before your own personal beliefs but I also think that they provide a good community in today's society. While organized religion may have caused wars in the past and still causes problems today, I feel that it has been more positive than negative.

[Melissa Nute]

Religion isn't something as important to me as it was in the past...I was raised and baptized a southern bapist since I was young but I changed my mind about religion once I went into 8th grade...

Right now I have my own set of beliefs that mostly leans towards paganism with some other elements mixed in; however, when I tell people this they figure I worship the devil or something and am into evil things, which is not true. If people took the time to learn about one anothers religions, sterotypes like these wouldn't exist and I wouldn't be judged as something I am not.

Don't judge someone from their religion please. People generally aren't the generalizations that people associated with that religion. Take time to learn about other religions, you'll discover more than you would think.

[MBiddy]

I'm not sure what you're saying, but I'm saying why did they make a version specifically for the country? Why isn't it just THE BIBLE, translated into different languages.

And why would God give us the same amount of free will if we would just go and abuse it? Or is humanity inherently sinful? No matter what he does he can't prevent us from becoming evil if we have free will. Oh wait, that can't be because God has infinite power and can make anything he wants. Then why is there still evil?

[srawls]

Well, British people speak English slightly different than American people do, as do Australian people speak English slightly different. Some people think the King James version is too hard to understand and want it translated into "Modern American English" so that is why they have the AMERICAN version. Personally, I think the more you translate the more the meaning is changed.

Also, either we have free will or we don't. If we were pre-programmed to love one another and do no evil, well, would it really be love? We'd be doing what we HAD to do not what we felt or wanted to do. I mean, there has to be dark to appreciate light, cold to appreciate warm, etc. etc.

is humanity inherently sinful?

I guess it depends what you believe in. According to the bible, yes, humanity is inherently sinful. The bible says that if we recognize our sin, ask for forgiveness, and follow God's word, then our sins will be forgiven and forgotten.

Stephen

[Mbusters01]

The reason they specifically have the 'New American Bible' is due to a couple of reasons. One of them is that the King James Bible was seen as being too hard. Another one is that many people considered the King James Bible to have too many mistakes and new documents also showed that it was incomplete. So they made a council to revise the bible ( the old and the new testaments) using every document they could find and the new 'American' version was released just for America in the 1950s.

If you are wondering how i know this it is because i had to read a couple of books of the bibile for my AP English class.