Go to Post Dave Lavery, Lou Rosanio and Karthik are all Woodie Flowers winners this year. So mentors it seems like if ya want the WFA it might be a good idea to put on a kilt :) - Kyle [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Motors
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2010, 14:39
Rob Rob is offline
Registered User
AKA: Rob
FRC #0131 (CHAOS)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 304
Rob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Rob
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

This is an excellent thread with good information. Thanks for contributing!

As far as "how long to run a gearbox in?" I would say the conditions listed bt Sanddrag for current draw are good. We have typically run KOP Toughboxes for 15 to 25 minutes before getting to those current levels. be sure to monitor motor heat and listen for odd noises that could indicate an assembly problem. Monitoring your current draw with a benchtop power supply is very helpful.

Good luck!

Rob
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2010, 15:10
dyanoshak dyanoshak is offline
Registered User
AKA: David Yanoshak
FRC #2158 (ausTIN CANs)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 191
dyanoshak has a reputation beyond reputedyanoshak has a reputation beyond reputedyanoshak has a reputation beyond reputedyanoshak has a reputation beyond reputedyanoshak has a reputation beyond reputedyanoshak has a reputation beyond reputedyanoshak has a reputation beyond reputedyanoshak has a reputation beyond reputedyanoshak has a reputation beyond reputedyanoshak has a reputation beyond reputedyanoshak has a reputation beyond repute
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Monitoring your current draw with a benchtop power supply is very helpful.
Using a Black Jaguar and BDC-COMM can make breaking-in a gearbox quite easy.

Set your motor to run at a specific voltage in voltage mode, or a specific speed in speed mode (with an encoder), and then monitor the motor current values it spits out. Just like on TV, set it, and forget it! (but not really, be safe and keep an eye on things)

-David
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2010, 17:09
Jonathan Norris Jonathan Norris is offline
Jno
FRC #0610 (Crescent Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,082
Jonathan Norris has a reputation beyond reputeJonathan Norris has a reputation beyond reputeJonathan Norris has a reputation beyond reputeJonathan Norris has a reputation beyond reputeJonathan Norris has a reputation beyond reputeJonathan Norris has a reputation beyond reputeJonathan Norris has a reputation beyond reputeJonathan Norris has a reputation beyond reputeJonathan Norris has a reputation beyond reputeJonathan Norris has a reputation beyond reputeJonathan Norris has a reputation beyond repute
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

here are some photos I've taken of the two issues discussed about the Nano gearboxes. First is our issue with the bearing sticking out and getting in the way of the motor mount, we were able to fix this easily. The second picture shows the slack in the gearbox with the big washer that comes installed.

http://twitpic.com/11e1jk

http://twitpic.com/11e1o6
__________________
Co-Founder of Taplytics.com
2013 World Champions (1241, 1477, 610)
Crescent Robotics Team 610 Mentor
K-Botics Team 2809 Founding Mentor ('09-'11)
Queen's University Mechanical Engineering, Applied Science '11

Crescent Robotics Team 610 Alumni

Last edited by Jonathan Norris : 04-02-2010 at 17:19.
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2010, 17:12
CraigHickman
 
Posts: n/a
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddrag View Post
I've done break-in on a number of FRC gearboxes over the years, and let me tell you, it makes a big difference. When running properly, a typical gearbox like the Nano should draw between 2.3 to 2.8 Amps per CIM with no load, from a 12 Volt supply.

Yours are drawing too much. You have something binding.

One year, I had a tight running gearbox, and no way to remachine the plates to increase center distance, and no lapping compound available. I took a bottle of car polish and poured it right in the meshing gears. A few cycles of this, and 20 minutes later, and a bunch of cleanup, and it ran like butter and current draw was less than half of what it started at.

For those of you designing your own gearboxes, make sure to use precision ground bearings. I've seen teams build gearboxes with non-precision general purpose bearings, that just aren't rated for the loads or speed they see, and they fail. I've even seen sloppiness in brand new bearings cause a gearbox to bind enough to nearly stall a CIM.
Do you break your gearbox in with any sort of lubrication or abrasives? We usually just dump a glob of lithium grease onto the gears during break in, but I'm curious as to how others go about this process.
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2010, 19:09
Dale's Avatar
Dale Dale is offline
Head Coach & Mentor
AKA: Dale Yocum
FRC #1540 (Flaming Chickens)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 504
Dale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud of
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

Quote:
here are some photos I've taken of the two issues discussed about the Nano gearboxes. First is our issue with the bearing sticking out and getting in the way of the motor mount, we were able to fix this easily. The second picture shows the slack in the gearbox with the big washer that comes installed.
Jonathan,
You say you fixed the bearing pushing out easily...was with the AM trnasmission I could see how you might make room. How do us CIM folks do it though?
__________________
2016 PNW Championship Chairman's; 2016 Winner Oregon City District, 2015 PNW Championship Chairman's; 2015 PNW District Engineering Inspiration; 2015 PNW District Finalist; 2014 PNW Championship Chairman's; 2014 Championship Innovation in Controls; 2013 Chairman's (Oregon); 2013 Finalist (OKC); 2012 Winner (OKC); 2012 Chairman's (OKC); 2012 Woody Flowers (Oregon); 2011 Volunteer of the Year (Oregon); 2011 Finalist & Captain (San Diego); 2011 Innovation in Control (San Diego); 2010 & 2007 Chairman's (Oregon); 2010 Regional Champions (Colorado); 2010 Innovation in Control (Colorado); 2009 & 2008 Engineering Inspiration (Oregon); 2008 Regional Champions (Oregon); 2007 Regional Finalist (Oregon); 2005 Rookie Inspiration (PNW)
  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2010, 19:14
AdamHeard's Avatar
AdamHeard AdamHeard is offline
Lead Mentor
FRC #0973 (Greybots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Atascadero
Posts: 5,526
AdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AdamHeard
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

Does anyone know a good way to get current draw using a voltmeter and ohms law?
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2010, 20:59
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,519
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigHickman View Post
Do you break your gearbox in with any sort of lubrication or abrasives? We usually just dump a glob of lithium grease onto the gears during break in, but I'm curious as to how others go about this process.
Grease is to prevent wear. During break in, you want to wear the gears into each other, not to prevent it. An abrasive compound is usually used for this. I would not grease the gears if the intent is to wear them in. However, once worn in, I would recommend always keeping the gears greased to prevent further wear.

For 968, we have not had to do any specific break-in procedure on our gearboxes in recent years, since we add a couple thousandths extra center-to-center distance.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2010, 22:20
DonRotolo's Avatar
DonRotolo DonRotolo is offline
Back to humble
FRC #0832
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 7,019
DonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond reputeDonRotolo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
Does anyone know a good way to get current draw using a voltmeter and ohms law?
Yes, of course. I=V/R, right?

So, carefully measure the Resistance of a piece of wire (I think #10 is 0.1 Ohms per foot, but check me on that. Measure several feet, accurately, being sure to subtract the resistance of the test probes). Now you know R

Measure Voltage across R while the motor is running, and do the math to solve for I (in Amperes)

Note that even a small error in R can lead to large errors in I, but this is also good for relative measurements (as in "it's drawing half the current it was drawing before")
__________________

I am N2IRZ - What's your callsign?
  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2010, 22:27
Dale's Avatar
Dale Dale is offline
Head Coach & Mentor
AKA: Dale Yocum
FRC #1540 (Flaming Chickens)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 504
Dale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud of
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

We use a clamp on ammeter when just running DC off a battery. We also use a current shunt such as this one: http://www.powerwerx.com/tools-meter...0-amp-max.html It's just a calibrated resistor. You then put your voltmeter across it and measure millivolts ...1 mv per amp.

Al Skierkiewicz posted something a while back about using something like 1 ft of #10 wire also dropping 1 mv per amp. Of course it's not as accurate as a calibrated current shunt (above) but it would certainly be fine for breaking in motors. You just measure the voltage across that length of wire in series with the motor wires.
__________________
2016 PNW Championship Chairman's; 2016 Winner Oregon City District, 2015 PNW Championship Chairman's; 2015 PNW District Engineering Inspiration; 2015 PNW District Finalist; 2014 PNW Championship Chairman's; 2014 Championship Innovation in Controls; 2013 Chairman's (Oregon); 2013 Finalist (OKC); 2012 Winner (OKC); 2012 Chairman's (OKC); 2012 Woody Flowers (Oregon); 2011 Volunteer of the Year (Oregon); 2011 Finalist & Captain (San Diego); 2011 Innovation in Control (San Diego); 2010 & 2007 Chairman's (Oregon); 2010 Regional Champions (Colorado); 2010 Innovation in Control (Colorado); 2009 & 2008 Engineering Inspiration (Oregon); 2008 Regional Champions (Oregon); 2007 Regional Finalist (Oregon); 2005 Rookie Inspiration (PNW)
  #25   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2010, 22:34
samir13k samir13k is offline
Registered User
AKA: Samir Shaikh
FRC #4329
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 281
samir13k has a brilliant futuresamir13k has a brilliant futuresamir13k has a brilliant futuresamir13k has a brilliant futuresamir13k has a brilliant futuresamir13k has a brilliant futuresamir13k has a brilliant futuresamir13k has a brilliant futuresamir13k has a brilliant futuresamir13k has a brilliant futuresamir13k has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to samir13k Send a message via MSN to samir13k
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale View Post
Jonathan,
You say you fixed the bearing pushing out easily...was with the AM trnasmission I could see how you might make room. How do us CIM folks do it though?
If you contact Andymark, you should be able to get the replacement bearings that mount flush... another possibility is to grind down the corner of the motor a bit (but i dont reccomend this method, it may classify as modifying the motor.) Number one quick fix i recommend is just to put a washer between the cim and the nano. it should fix the problem
  #26   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-02-2010, 23:06
IndySam's Avatar
IndySam IndySam is offline
Registered User
FRC #0829 (Digital Goats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Indy
Posts: 3,362
IndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond repute
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

Quote:
Originally Posted by samir13k View Post
If you contact Andymark, you should be able to get the replacement bearings that mount flush... another possibility is to grind down the corner of the motor a bit (but i dont reccomend this method, it may classify as modifying the motor.) Number one quick fix i recommend is just to put a washer between the cim and the nano. it should fix the problem
Samir is correct, contact AM for the correct bearing. Temporarily you can use washers but I wouldn't' do that in competition.
__________________
"Champions are champions not because they do anything extraordinary but because they do the ordinary things better than anyone else." —Chuck Knoll


2015 Indianapolis District Winner
2014 Boilermaker Regional Industrial Design Award
2013 Smoky Mountain Regional Industrial Design Award
2012 Boilermaker Engineering Excellence Award
2010 Boilermaker Rockwell Innovation in Control Award.
2009 Buckeye J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2009 Boilermaker J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2008 Boilermaker J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2007 St Louis Regional Winners
  #27   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-02-2010, 00:07
jspatz1's Avatar
jspatz1 jspatz1 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jeff
FRC #1986 (Team Titanium)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
Posts: 836
jspatz1 has a reputation beyond reputejspatz1 has a reputation beyond reputejspatz1 has a reputation beyond reputejspatz1 has a reputation beyond reputejspatz1 has a reputation beyond reputejspatz1 has a reputation beyond reputejspatz1 has a reputation beyond reputejspatz1 has a reputation beyond reputejspatz1 has a reputation beyond reputejspatz1 has a reputation beyond reputejspatz1 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to jspatz1
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

The Nano we just recieved actually had interferance between the internal hex of the output shaft and the first stage gear. They were literally hitting each other and locking up. We had to remove the output shaft and sand off the corners of the hex to free it up. Make sure you don't have this problem, although I'm sure you would know it if you did. Is it noisey? (Noisier than usual that is.)
__________________
  #28   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-02-2010, 13:27
Dale's Avatar
Dale Dale is offline
Head Coach & Mentor
AKA: Dale Yocum
FRC #1540 (Flaming Chickens)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 504
Dale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud ofDale has much to be proud of
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

You are all correct. Andy Baker suspects that what's happening is the thicker shielded bearing (a FR6ZZ) when clamped down by the bolts holding it in for that axle, is causing things to bind internally and the current to go through the roof. The thinner unshielded bearing, a FR6 (http://store.andymark.biz/am-0027.html) is what's needed.
__________________
2016 PNW Championship Chairman's; 2016 Winner Oregon City District, 2015 PNW Championship Chairman's; 2015 PNW District Engineering Inspiration; 2015 PNW District Finalist; 2014 PNW Championship Chairman's; 2014 Championship Innovation in Controls; 2013 Chairman's (Oregon); 2013 Finalist (OKC); 2012 Winner (OKC); 2012 Chairman's (OKC); 2012 Woody Flowers (Oregon); 2011 Volunteer of the Year (Oregon); 2011 Finalist & Captain (San Diego); 2011 Innovation in Control (San Diego); 2010 & 2007 Chairman's (Oregon); 2010 Regional Champions (Colorado); 2010 Innovation in Control (Colorado); 2009 & 2008 Engineering Inspiration (Oregon); 2008 Regional Champions (Oregon); 2007 Regional Finalist (Oregon); 2005 Rookie Inspiration (PNW)
  #29   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-02-2010, 15:51
Rob Rob is offline
Registered User
AKA: Rob
FRC #0131 (CHAOS)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 304
Rob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond reputeRob has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Rob
Re: AndyMark Nano Break In

Just a quick update on two observations after receiving our NANOs over the weekend.

First, we used a 5/8" retaining ring to fill the "wiggle" on the last stage output shaft. It slipped right over the hex shaft and was the perfect thickness to reduce the wiggle but still be free of binding.

Second, we noticed that there is also a little slop in the first 50 tooth input gear that the CIM pinion mates with. This was causing the gear to contact the two washers on the CIM shaft for positioning the pinion. This caused significant binding and may be the cause of the high current draw that some people have observed. The solution was to assemble the CIM pinion with only one washer behind it.

After assembly we ran in for 15 minutes and the gearbox was humming along with the CIM only drawing 2.4 amps!

We are direct driving our kicker off of the NANO and have made many kicks so far with no signs of wear or tear. The thing works beautifully!

Rob

Last edited by Rob : 08-02-2010 at 15:57.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TB Nano Encoder Spacing daltore Kit & Additional Hardware 5 24-01-2010 11:17
pic: AndyMark has the Nano; we have the Shuffle! rob_c Extra Discussion 10 19-01-2010 22:30
pic: I love the nano Akash Rastogi Extra Discussion 6 02-11-2009 18:19
Lost iPod Nano - SVR Otaku General Forum 0 02-04-2007 21:20


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:05.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi