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#1
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Tipping opponents robots
Im wondering if a robot would be penalized for hitting an opponent's robot going over a bump, and flipping it, would be cause for a penalty. G36 says that strategies aimed at flipping over robots is a cause for a yellow, but then g37 states that high speed collisions and bumper to bumper interaction is legal. If a robot flipped another while it was vulnerable on the bump, would a ref call a penalty even if it was a bumper to bumper hit?
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#2
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
That actually came up in one of our strategizing sessions yesterday, so I'm glad you asked this.
What we decided (which may be wrong) is that if you accidentally flip another robot over while making legal contact between the two robots, then it is completely legal. Although if this is your strategy, or you contact them above or below the bumpers, then it is illegal. |
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#3
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
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I't would really be up to the Ref' to decide if you intentionally "gave a flipper to the throat" (sorry, I had to put this in here, my football coach always says this to the defensive line) LOL ![]() |
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#4
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
Seek clarification on the Q&A, but in the "Aim High" game, there was a 30 degree ramp leading up to a platform, and there was a LOT of "vigorous interaction" between robots on and around the platform. If you made legal contact with another robot on or around the platform... and they tipped over... that was their problem.
Not that you would tip them intentionally, or cheer when it happened, but you didn't have to worry about being called for tipping. "Previous year's rules do not apply to this game, etc. etc." Jason |
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#5
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
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*sighs* Well they at least they're going to accomplish their goal of making it similar to mainstream sports. I think this year will leave more than a few teams unhappy with referee decisions. EDIT: Thanks jason, that's what Im hoping they'll do this year. Obviously a flipping spatula is not legal, but I didn't want to either not block for fear of penalties, or have a game changing penalty for blocking, and flipping another. Last edited by Homsar66 : 10-01-2010 at 17:09. |
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#6
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
There is no rule that says that a defending robot must clear
a path for an offensive robot to use in crossing a barrier. It is a precarious crossing, crossing on top of another robot would be done at your own risk. A defending robot that "hits" a robot that is crossing, causing it to be up-ended, will be something that is left to the referees. In Aim High, the precarious spot was the high value scoring position, and it was a real war there for good reasons. I don't think that you have that justification with the barrier crossings in this game. Eugene |
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#7
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
So, with the photos of robots with 6, 8 (or 10 or 12 or ...) wheels "down" being posted more and more, I got to thinking about this issue again.
These "low clearance" robots hang out a considerable distance as they traverse the bump. This brings up several questions: 1. If a "low clearance" bot goes over the bump and comes down on top of another bot on the other side of the bump, is there a penalty? <G38> 2. If a "low clearance" bot is extended (hanging out over the edge) of the bump and another bot comes up underneath it moving in the opposite direction, it is likely that the "low clearance" bot will be flipped. Is this a penalty? <G36> 3. Does the answer to either question change based on "intention"? (How will a ref know?) 4. Is the bump a true "anything goes" zone? From what I understand - a "low clearance" robot runs a substantial risk of driving on top of another robot, which violates <G38b> - so they've got to be real careful going over a "defended" bump. On the other hand, they run the risk of being flipped by an aggressive defender, possibly making a defender guilty of violating <G36> which would suggest that blocking a "low clearance" bot is a very dangerous strategy. Humm... -Mr. Van Coach, Robodox |
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#8
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
I would be very interested in seeing any clarification about this. For any robots designed to deny a particular zone from opponents, specifically, from opponents who cannot travel through the tunnel, this could be a really tricky situation to be in.
When an 8 wheel drive come over the bump trying to get into the zone you are defending, do you: 1. Get to the top of the bump first and deny them that position, 2. climb the bump at the same time as your opponents and hope to make bumper and bumper contact only, 3. push them while half their base is sticking out at the top of the bump, 4. Sit on the incline on the your side of the bump such that when their robot cross over, they will land on your robot, 5. wait until their robot stabilize on top of the bump before climbing and pushing, 6. or wait for your opponent to cross the peak and begin climbing down on your side before you start pushing. I can see option 3 is being closed to violating G36, but option 4 might be acceptable to people. Bear in mind all of these will happen within a split second, making it hard to tell what actually happened. What's the difference between climbing up your side of the bump, getting your front 2 wheels at the top, sit there, versus climbing up your side of the bump, get your front 2 wheels at the top, and begin pushing when the other robot gets there? |
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#9
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
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Even if all the contact remains bumper-to-bumper, the climbing robot will bu pushing up at a considerable angle on the robot sitting up on top of the bump. |
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#10
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
Did anyone ever submit a question to have this clarified on the Q&A system?
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#11
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
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1> Maybe 2> Maybe 3> Not so much intention, but how flagrent it is 4> Most likely it will be the wild west. Expect contact, expect contact outside the bumperzone, and expect to get rolled if you are not careful about where and when you cross. Quote:
1> will get the defending bot rolled 2> Best scenario, and the least likely to happen in the heat of competition 3> Most likely defense and most likely to roll the crossing robot 4> Least likely to happen because it'll be the most likely to damage the defending bot 5> Won't happen 6> Give up the advantage? won't happen. Considering the options, anyone building to cross the bumps should be prepared to have to right themselves or figure out how to cross and avoid defense. I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but I suggest you design for 'vigorous interaction' with other robots. |
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#12
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
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I bet your answer contains the words "that would not be in the spirit of the FRC". |
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#13
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
Maybe, but it could also contain words that deal with a high center of gravity or not having a righting mechanism. Really depends on who pushes, when they pushed and how it appears to the referees. As I found out while reffing, it is very difficult to judge intent.
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#14
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
yeah... if it is done by accident and no more than once, then it is ok... but if it seems intentional and you have been warned than you will get a red card...
oh one thing i forgot to mention... you will only get a red card if it is the contact damaged the other robot |
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#15
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Re: Tipping opponents robots
This is illegal under rule <G36>
Quote:
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