Go to Post Unless your HS students have earned BSEE and BSME degreees already, how can they lead or run an engineering team? - KenWittlief [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-02-2010, 19:35
big1boom big1boom is offline
Chains=Fun
FRC #2022 (Titan Robotics)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Aurora
Posts: 267
big1boom is a glorious beacon of lightbig1boom is a glorious beacon of lightbig1boom is a glorious beacon of lightbig1boom is a glorious beacon of lightbig1boom is a glorious beacon of lightbig1boom is a glorious beacon of light
<R07>E Bumper clarification

Quote:
<R07>E. The BUMPERS must be covered with a rugged, smooth cloth (1000 dernier Cordura Plus® strongly recommended). The cloth must completely enclose all exposed surfaces of the BUMPER backing (plywood) and cushion (pool noodle) material. It is recommended that lengths of aluminum angle be used to clamp the fabric in place.
My question is, does the fabric have to wrap around the entire bumper, or could we just have fabric on the three exposed sides?


In this image
Black=Bumper Hardware (noodles, plywood, mounting supplies)
Red=Fabric cover that is absolutely required
Green=Fabric in question.


To reiterate, is the Green fabric from the image required?

Sorry for my bad photoshop
__________________
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-02-2010, 19:37
Ice Berg's Avatar
Ice Berg Ice Berg is offline
Seth Berg
AKA: Seth Berg
FRC #0694 (Stuy Pulse)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 140
Ice Berg is a splendid one to beholdIce Berg is a splendid one to beholdIce Berg is a splendid one to beholdIce Berg is a splendid one to beholdIce Berg is a splendid one to beholdIce Berg is a splendid one to beholdIce Berg is a splendid one to beholdIce Berg is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Ice Berg
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

Typically the fabric needs to wrap slightly onto the back side in order to fasten it on, but you do not need to fully wrap the other side.
__________________
Mens et Manus

  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-02-2010, 23:15
_Tanto_'s Avatar
_Tanto_ _Tanto_ is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: cali
Posts: 34
_Tanto_ is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

i dont see wrapping the back all the way necessary because the rule states that all "exposed sides" and the back wouldnt be exposed.
__________________
"a triscuit can only do what a triscuit does"
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-02-2010, 23:19
Steve W Steve W is offline
Grow Up? Why?
no team
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Toronto,Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,523
Steve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond repute
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

R7 ...
E. The BUMPERS must be covered with a rugged, smooth cloth (1000 dernier Cordura Plus® strongly recommended). The cloth must completely enclose the BUMPER backing (plywood) and cushion (pool noodle) material. It is recommended that lengths of aluminum angle be used to clamp the fabric in place

This is taken from the rules, red highlight is mine. To say that the cloth does not have to cover the back is NOT what is stated in the rules. Please read the rules before making statements.
__________________
We do not stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-02-2010, 23:26
Vikesrock's Avatar
Vikesrock Vikesrock is offline
Team 2175 Founder
AKA: Kevin O'Connor
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 3,305
Vikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Vikesrock Send a message via MSN to Vikesrock Send a message via Yahoo to Vikesrock
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve W View Post
R7 ...
E. The BUMPERS must be covered with a rugged, smooth cloth (1000 dernier Cordura Plus® strongly recommended). The cloth must completely enclose the BUMPER backing (plywood) and cushion (pool noodle) material. It is recommended that lengths of aluminum angle be used to clamp the fabric in place

This is taken from the rules, red highlight is mine. To say that the cloth does not have to cover the back is NOT what is stated in the rules. Please read the rules before making statements.
Quote:
<R07> ...
To achieve this, BUMPERS must be constructed as described below and illustrated in Figure 8 – 1.
Figure 8-1 conflicts with this interpretation of the wording.
__________________


2007 Wisconsin Regional Highest Rookie Seed & Regional Finalists (Thanks 930 & 2039)
2008 MN Regional Semifinalists (Thanks 2472 & 1756)
2009 Northstar Regional Semifinalists (Thanks 171 & 525)
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-02-2010, 23:46
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is offline
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19,825
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

Steve, the exact wording has been used in the past, and teams have passed with the backs of the backing (i.e., the robot side) not covered. Any team that does opt to cover that side may have a slightly harder time attaching bumpers.
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk

  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-02-2010, 23:49
Steve W Steve W is offline
Grow Up? Why?
no team
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Toronto,Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,523
Steve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond repute
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

If I am inspecting I will follow the rules. The diagrams are only helps like the blue boxes and not the rules. I would hate to be a team that can't compete because they did not follow the rules. It is also something I would bring up if I noticed that a team did not have completely covered backs. Why should some of us follow the rules and others not?
__________________
We do not stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing.
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-02-2010, 23:59
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is offline
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19,825
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve W View Post
If I am inspecting I will follow the rules. The diagrams are only helps like the blue boxes and not the rules. I would hate to be a team that can't compete because they did not follow the rules. It is also something I would bring up if I noticed that a team did not have completely covered backs. Why should some of us follow the rules and others not?
Why should some go through more work than they need to?

I don't think anybody's asked this to Q&A yet. If I had access, I would. I don't have access to ask questions. It should be a fairly simple: "Does <R07-E> require that the entire robot side of the plywood bumper backing be covered by the fabric? If it does, can Figure 8-1 be modified to reflect this?"

Also, by Figure 8-1 being referenced in the way it is ("must be constructed as described below and illustrated in Figure 8-1"), Figure 8-1 becomes the definitive illustration of the bumpers. Whether or not the rules support it, that is how a large number of teams will build their bumpers. Now you're telling them that they will not be allowed to compete, just because they didn't cover an area that the drawings didn't show covered and the rules *might* have been interpreted to say had to be covered--the rules appear to be ambiguous, at least in enforcement.

If Q&A doesn't say one way or the other, then both sides are equally valid. Let it alone. If Q&A says one way or the other, then that way is the way that all teams will need to go--and an update will probably be released to advise teams of this way.
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk

  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2010, 00:34
waialua359's Avatar
waialua359 waialua359 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Glenn
FRC #0359 (Hawaiian Kids)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Waialua, HI
Posts: 3,316
waialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

This situation is the case where the figure does not match the description again.
I would suggest completely covering the back to cover your bases OR submit a Q&A inquiry.
__________________

2016 Hawaii Regional #1 seed, IDesign, Safety Award
2016 NY Tech Valley Regional Champions, #1 seed, Innovation in Controls Award
2016 Lake Superior Regional Champions, #1 seed, Quality Award, Dean's List
2015 FRC Worlds-Carver Division Champions
2015 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed.
2015 Australia Regional Champions, #2 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2015 Inland Empire Regional Champions, #1 seed, Industrial Design Award
2014 OZARK Mountain Brawl Champions, #1 seed.
2014 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed, UL Safety Award
2014 Dallas Regional Champions, #1 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2014 Northern Lights Regional Champions, #1 seed, Entrepreneurship Award
2013 Championship Dean's List Winner
2013 Utah Regional Champion, #1 seed, KP&B Award, Deans List
2013 Boilermaker Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Lone Star Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Hawaii Regional Champions #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2010, 00:34
3286's Avatar
3286 3286 is offline
Registered User
AKA: mike s
FRC #3286 (the Rock-It surgeons)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: yakima, washington
Posts: 37
3286 has much to be proud of3286 has much to be proud of3286 has much to be proud of3286 has much to be proud of3286 has much to be proud of3286 has much to be proud of3286 has much to be proud of3286 has much to be proud of3286 has much to be proud of
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

We noticed a similar thing in the part of the rule that states that the bumper backing should be the full length of the perimeter ( Im paraphrasing, its very late and after 20 hours I do that ), so this leads me to believe that the plywood is the same dimension as the robot frame on any side. Further in the rules figure 8-2 describes how the bumpers should meet at corners, so as to not have any gaps is how we interpret this. Our question is it legal if the bumpers dont meet each other in the corners but still have no gaps allowing the robot frame to make contact with anything?
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2010, 00:46
Vikesrock's Avatar
Vikesrock Vikesrock is offline
Team 2175 Founder
AKA: Kevin O'Connor
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 3,305
Vikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Vikesrock Send a message via MSN to Vikesrock Send a message via Yahoo to Vikesrock
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post
Steve, the exact wording has been used in the past, and teams have passed with the backs of the backing (i.e., the robot side) not covered. Any team that does opt to cover that side may have a slightly harder time attaching bumpers.

Unfortunately, the wording in the past has not been exactly the same.

Time to go submit my third Q&A question in 3 days.
__________________


2007 Wisconsin Regional Highest Rookie Seed & Regional Finalists (Thanks 930 & 2039)
2008 MN Regional Semifinalists (Thanks 2472 & 1756)
2009 Northstar Regional Semifinalists (Thanks 171 & 525)
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2010, 00:56
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
no bag, vex only, final destination
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #0228 (GUS Robotics); FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 7,786
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Chris is me
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

I think the key word is "EXPOSED". The bumper backing facing the robot isn't exposed.
__________________
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-?)
--2016 Waterbury SFs (with 3314, 3719), RIDE #2 Seed / Winners (with 1058, 6153), Carver QFs (with 503, 359, 4607)
Mentor / Consultant Person: 2170 (2017-?)
.
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015)
-- 2015 TVR Motorola Quality, FLR GM Industrial Design -- 2014 FLR Motorola Quality / SFs (with 341, 4930)
-- 2013 BAE Motorola Quality, WPI Regional #1 Seed / Delphi Excellence in Engineering / Finalists (with 20, 3182)
-- 2012 BAE Imagery / Finalists (with 1519, 885), CT Xerox Creativity / SFs (with 2168, 118)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 MN 10K Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
2791 Build Season Photo Gallery - Look here for mechanism photos My Robotics Blog (Updated April 11 2014)
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2010, 00:59
big1boom big1boom is offline
Chains=Fun
FRC #2022 (Titan Robotics)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Aurora
Posts: 267
big1boom is a glorious beacon of lightbig1boom is a glorious beacon of lightbig1boom is a glorious beacon of lightbig1boom is a glorious beacon of lightbig1boom is a glorious beacon of lightbig1boom is a glorious beacon of light
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
I think the key word is "EXPOSED". The bumper backing facing the robot isn't exposed.
The key word is definitely "exposed" however, what does the GDC mean when they say exposed? Do they mean the part that is facing the inside part of the robot, or just the parts that could possibly come into contact with other robots?

I would ask this question in Q&A, but unfortunately I do not have access to.
__________________
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2010, 01:01
Vikesrock's Avatar
Vikesrock Vikesrock is offline
Team 2175 Founder
AKA: Kevin O'Connor
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 3,305
Vikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Vikesrock Send a message via MSN to Vikesrock Send a message via Yahoo to Vikesrock
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
I think the key word is "EXPOSED". The bumper backing facing the robot isn't exposed.
Oops, now I look like an idiot for quoting the rule from an old Revision on the Q&A That's what I get for poor organization of my manual folder.
*Deletes RevA*

Oh, well, I would have asked the question anyway.

Brian,

As noted above, I have asked this on the Q&A.
__________________


2007 Wisconsin Regional Highest Rookie Seed & Regional Finalists (Thanks 930 & 2039)
2008 MN Regional Semifinalists (Thanks 2472 & 1756)
2009 Northstar Regional Semifinalists (Thanks 171 & 525)
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2010, 01:01
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
no bag, vex only, final destination
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #0228 (GUS Robotics); FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 7,786
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Chris is me
Re: <R07>E Bumper clarification

Yeah, why would they specify the exposed bumper material if they meant all of it? I can't see how the word "exposed" means "all of the plywood". The figure supports my conclusion. Bump on!
__________________
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-?)
--2016 Waterbury SFs (with 3314, 3719), RIDE #2 Seed / Winners (with 1058, 6153), Carver QFs (with 503, 359, 4607)
Mentor / Consultant Person: 2170 (2017-?)
.
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015)
-- 2015 TVR Motorola Quality, FLR GM Industrial Design -- 2014 FLR Motorola Quality / SFs (with 341, 4930)
-- 2013 BAE Motorola Quality, WPI Regional #1 Seed / Delphi Excellence in Engineering / Finalists (with 20, 3182)
-- 2012 BAE Imagery / Finalists (with 1519, 885), CT Xerox Creativity / SFs (with 2168, 118)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 MN 10K Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
2791 Build Season Photo Gallery - Look here for mechanism photos My Robotics Blog (Updated April 11 2014)
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Clarification on bumper rule... RoboSparks Rules/Strategy 2 16-01-2010 07:29
<R07> F -source for bumper fabric? Andy Brockway Rules/Strategy 9 12-01-2010 07:36
pic: R07-Bumper configuration legality Trevor_Decker Extra Discussion 5 11-01-2010 12:20
R07-Bumper configuration legality Trevor_Decker Rules/Strategy 2 10-01-2010 18:38
Your opinion: does our mesh violate rule R07?? RoboMaster Rules/Strategy 9 16-02-2009 18:46


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:17.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi