Bumper Numbering Dimensions?

[DM7000]

Im going to paint the bumpers with our team number, but I can't seem to find dimensions anywhere for the sizes other than they need to be 4'' tall. Is this the the only specification?

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by DM7000

Im going to paint the bumpers with our team number, but I can't seem to find dimensions anywhere for the sizes other than they need to be 4'' tall. Is this the the only specification?

<R15> Teams shall display their team number on the BUMPERS in four locations at approximately 90-degree intervals around the perimeter of the ROBOT. The numerals must be at least 4 inches high, at least in ¾-inch stroke width and in a contrasting color from its background. Team Numbers must be clearly visible from a distance of not less than 100 feet, so that judges, referees, and announcers can easily identify competing ROBOTS.

It's in the same sentence as the height requirement

[DM7000]

Alright thanks for that! i couldnt find it in the rulebook and i saw that they must be 4" on another thread, thats why i didnt see it

[Gary Dillard]

I just posted this to the Q&A:

Rule R15 states:....The numerals must be at least 4 inches high, at least in ¾-inch stroke width and in a contrasting color from its background....

The word color is singular in this rule; does this mean that the numbers can only be one solid color, or can a second color be used to help with the contrast - surrounding a white number with black or vice versa, for example - to make it more clearly visible.

I was told by one team at our regional (and observed other teams making modifications apparantly for the same reason) that they failed inspection because the numbers could only be a single color. Did anyone else have this problem?

[ChuckDickerson]

Originally Posted by Gary Dillard

I just posted this to the Q&A:

Rule R15 states:....The numerals must be at least 4 inches high, at least in ¾-inch stroke width and in a contrasting color from its background....

The word color is singular in this rule; does this mean that the numbers can only be one solid color, or can a second color be used to help with the contrast - surrounding a white number with black or vice versa, for example - to make it more clearly visible.

I was told by one team at our regional (and observed other teams making modifications apparantly for the same reason) that they failed inspection because the numbers could only be a single color. Did anyone else have this problem?

Gary, thanks for asking and bringing this topic up. To answer your question in a word, yes. All of us inspectors at Bayou had to go on was the printed word we had at the time. It pained us to have to tell teams that the GDC clearly wants only one single color for the bumper numbers. Several teams had either multicolor or outlined numbers which we deemed to be against the GDC wishes. I personally hated having to tell 1912 that they had to paint over the beautiful flame painted numbers that matched their shirts, their pit, and their overall image with stupid solid white numbers which didn’t look nearly as nice after they painted over them. I hated telling 1421 they had to cover over their black outline around their yellow numbers with yellow just because it was technically 2 different colors. There were many other similar examples. The lead inspector emailed questions to FIRST about whether or not outlined numbers were OK. He didn’t get a response until the regional was over.

For the record we based our decision on these words:

<R15> Teams shall display their team number on the BUMPERS in four locations at approximately 90-degree intervals around the perimeter of the ROBOT. The numerals must be at least 4 inches high, at least in ¾-inch stroke width and in a contrasting color from its background. Team Numbers must be clearly visible from a distance of not less than 100 feet, so that judges, referees, and announcers can easily identify competing ROBOTS.

Note that as you indicate the rule seems to use color as singular.

This Q&A question verifies that: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=14421

Note that the GDC added the word “single” in the Q&A response which is not the exact wording of <R15>

And finally, while not a rule and we would not have considered it unless the above Q&A answer confirmed it the intent of the GDC seems to be clear in Dave Lavery’s post here:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...5&postcount=27

This issue highlights the need for more training for all inspectors. It was clear at Bayou that the inspectors had no more inside knowledge of the bumper rules than did any of the teams. We could only call them as we saw them. I would expect this issue to be cleared up in a future team update or at least additional information provided to inspectors at the week 2 and beyond regionals.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Further suggestions for letter dimensions. At Bayou, inspector were measuring the vertical height of the numbers as they were mounted on the bumper. Not as they were painted on the material. If you paint a 4" tall numeral on your nice flat bumper fabric and then wrap it around your bumper, it appears to shrink slightly because pool noodles are round, not square. It's obviously still 4" on the fabric, but if you hold a ruler up against the bumper, the numbers are going to be shorter. Since you can't make square pool noodles, you're best off making your numbers about 4.5" tall so the end up closer to the right height once you wrap the bumpers.

[Gary Dillard]

Hmmmmmm....

2.5 inch pool noodle means .75 inches on each radius plus 2.5 inches between the tangents to equal 4 inches on the fabric (figuring the compression of the noodles is about the same as the thickness of the fabric). .75 inches wraps around a 1.25 radius 0.6 radians; sin of 0.6 times 1.25 equals an effective height of .706 inches, so between the 2 sides you would be 0.088 inches short of 4 inches.

Did they measure the height with calipers?

[Kevin Sevcik]

Alls I know is my team painted 4" numbers and they came up 3.75" at Bayou. Giving yourself an extra half inch couldn't possibly hurt.

[Peter Matteson]

I'm surprised about the single color issue. I would think in particular an outlining color would improve the contrast and legibility of the numbers and would be encouraged.

As for inspections since I haven't made it to a regional yet, but will be inspecting in Hartford again, I'm curious if there are new bumper inspection templates this year. last year we had some handy templates to measure number size, stroke and bumper height all in one.

[Gary Dillard]

My Q&A Question has been answered.

It is OK to highlight the team numbers in order to improve the contrast.