Pushing Power?

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

Just remember that your logic would mean that you would still lose by 3 goals either way. When you are playing defense the entire match you aren't scoring your 2 goals...

Well, of course your partners and your other opponents capibilities would need to be taken into account for this (and any) strategy.

I completely understand what you are saying in respect to ranking points (or whatever they are called now) in qualification matches. But, I think there is some merits to playing each match like it is an elimination match to get ready for when the matches really count. At the end of the competition, the team with the gold medals will be those that won matches, not scored the most ranking points. I think you would be foolish to develop your strategy around the notion that little defense will be played because it hurts your seeding. Of course, basing your strategy around elimination match style, and not qualification style, could leave you watching the elimination matches.

But, when in doubt, I always think, "what would an NFL coach do?". And as Herm Edwards said, "You play to win the game".

[Nigel]

the seeding points thing makes as much sense as it can until i've seen a competition and know how they work

that being said it also makes sense as xaul said, to play like its an elimination round, because you won't be on the same alliance the whole entire competition (from what i understand), and so if one of those top 8 teams is watching (and they will be), and sees that you have defensive capabilities they want on their alliance, it doesn't matter how you do in the seeding points standings if that makes sense...

my_Two_Cents+=2; //

[JohnFogarty]

WE made SUPER tank treads and they run with 4 CIM motors and 2 Toughboxes, i don't even think it's possible to push us xD

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by John_1102

WE made SUPER tank treads and they run with 4 CIM motors and 2 Toughboxes, i don't even think it's possible to push us xD

Sounds like a challange to me

[Peter Matteson]

Originally Posted by John_1102

WE made SUPER tank treads and they run with 4 CIM motors and 2 Toughboxes, i don't even think it's possible to push us xD

We've Heard that before.

[EricH]

Too bad Truck Town Thunder (FRC0068) won't be seeing you guys until Championships, if then.

NOBODY pushes Truck Town!

[Nevets Amstier]

Originally Posted by EricH

NOBODY pushes Truck Town!

http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv.../2007new_sf1m1

at around 0:48 listen to the announcer
oops

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Nevets Amstier

http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv.../2007new_sf1m1

at around 0:48 listen to the announcer
oops

The announcer was clearly mistaken.

[Chris is me]

Truck Town does not get pushed, they only allow their partners to assist their movement.

Though I find it odd that their best year ever (IRI win, national finalist) was a year where they had the same traction as everyone else...

Pushing is limited by either torque or traction. You really don't want to have a torque limited drivetrain (without shifting) as that can lead to extremely high current draws in pushing matches, and once you become traction limited you're "done" as far as increasing pushing force goes assuming an at weight robot. Ideal pushing force = high traction wheel + drivetrain gear ratio / motor combination to cause traction to be the limiting factor + 120 lbs.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, because then I have a robot to tweak...

[Meredith Novak]

Originally Posted by JVN

The announcer was clearly mistaken.

Dan? Mistaken? Never.

On the pushing question: We can drag JTN around the floor and he flaps like a flag in the wind

[hipsterjr]

Originally Posted by John_1102

WE made SUPER tank treads and they run with 4 CIM motors and 2 Toughboxes, i don't even think it's possible to push us xD

342 will see about that in Palmetto. Articulating 8 wheel drive baby, this thing has more stick than Spiderman covered in tar. While 1102 may put up a fight, I plan on seeing a fair number of mecanum bots getting shoved around if they aren't quick enough to get out of the way.
My $0.02

[Bill_B]

I hear about this pushing thing and I'm still wondering what this will do to help the alliance with the brute pushers on it. I suppose there might be an extreme scenario in which there is only one good scorer on an alliance, so pushing that robot around would be an advantage to the other alliance, but is that going to be common? Only one scorer, I mean? Unless your pusher is scoring at the same time it's pushing, you haven't achieved anything useful until it affects the score positively for your alliance. So far, it sounds like "kids" are merely transferring their playground experience indoors. Pushing for the sake of pushing - bah, phooey! Probably not GP either.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

Probably not GP either.

Y'know what. I get sick and tired of people calling playing defense not GP.

Just because you decided to take the tradeoff of mobility over traction doesn't mean that it's un-GP to push you. In fact, it may be the best way to win.

While I'm against damaging other robots, I'm not against taking another robot for a 20-30 second ride across the field ... letting them go for 10 seconds ... and then doing it again. It's not against the rules, It's a valid strategy, therefore it's GP (not saying I'm taking that strategy this year).

So, I'm sorry Bill_B (and others) but be prepared, and design for, defense being played and pushing to happen.

The above is JM(NS)HO.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

I hear about this pushing thing and I'm still wondering what this will do to help the alliance with the brute pushers on it. I suppose there might be an extreme scenario in which there is only one good scorer on an alliance, so pushing that robot around would be an advantage to the other alliance, but is that going to be common? Only one scorer, I mean? Unless your pusher is scoring at the same time it's pushing, you haven't achieved anything useful until it affects the score positively for your alliance. So far, it sounds like "kids" are merely transferring their playground experience indoors. Pushing for the sake of pushing - bah, phooey! Probably not GP either.

Incidental, quick, or occasional defense is a nice card to have in a lot of games, which traction can give you. The particular reason I wanted to emphasize it this year was because of the ball return. Basically, all of the game objects are reappearing in one tiny spot. I would like to be in that tiny spot. Best way to ensure that is to make sure you require effort to be moved.

[JohnFogarty]

Originally Posted by hipsterjr

342 will see about that in Palmetto. Articulating 8 wheel drive baby, this thing has more stick than Spiderman covered in tar. While 1102 may put up a fight, I plan on seeing a fair number of mecanum bots getting shoved around if they aren't quick enough to get out of the way.
My $0.02

i'm almost hoping someone pushes us then we'll show them why it's called the KILLDOZER. no i'm not going to kill your robot lol. I'm going to write in giant letters on our blocking mechanism Push me xD.