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Unread 19-02-2010, 10:57
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Kicking Clarification???

So I have been informed by another team that we are only allowed to kick the ball every 20 seconds and i havent found anything in the manual. If anyone knows anything about this rule, please let me know.
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Unread 19-02-2010, 11:01
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

The rule is 2 seconds, not 20. You must wait at least 2 seconds between kicks. Probably a typo on your friend's part. This rule is in the manual, though I don't know the exact number off the top of my head.
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Unread 19-02-2010, 11:03
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

Would be funny (or not) if you only kick ten balls per match...

But, if your kick mechanism extends outside BUMPER ZONE, you'll have to wait 2 seconds between each kick!
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Unread 19-02-2010, 11:04
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

Rule <G30-a>. And notice that it only applies if your kicker goes outside your FRAME PERIMETER. If it stays inside, there is no limit on kicking frequency.
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Unread 19-02-2010, 11:07
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol View Post
Rule <G30-a>. And notice that it only applies if your kicker goes outside your FRAME PERIMETER. If it stays inside, there is no limit on kicking frequency.
I'm sorry by have told BUMPER ZONE. It's FRAME PERIMETER the correct!
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Unread 19-02-2010, 11:14
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

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Originally Posted by GaryVoshol View Post
Rule <G30-a>. And notice that it only applies if your kicker goes outside your FRAME PERIMETER. If it stays inside, there is no limit on kicking frequency.
Yes, very true. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Unread 19-02-2010, 11:15
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

thanks, saved me a horrible game
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Unread 19-02-2010, 11:33
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

I think the goal of that prank was to get you to read the rules....did it work?
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Unread 19-02-2010, 12:29
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

Just so everyone is sure...

<G30> ROBOT Volume – During a MATCH, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as follows:
a. BALL Interaction Volume – Solely for the purposes of interacting with a BALL, MECHANISMS that are below the BUMPER may extend up to the BUMPER PERIMETER, for a period not exceeding two seconds. After returning inside the FRAMER PERIMETER, such MECHANISMS are not permitted to re-extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER for at least two seconds.
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Unread 19-02-2010, 13:29
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

This brings up something that has been on my mind for the past couple days.

The rules quoted above me have 2 different 2-second timers. So simply saying "2 seconds between kicks" is not entirely accurate (that is, if I'm interpreting them correctly)

The first timer starts when you break the plane of the frame perimeter, and the second timer starts when you retract back within the frame perimeter.

Unless your kicks take zero seconds, there's really no way to kick twice with only 2.0 seconds between them.

Which brings me to my reason for being in here ... our kicker is spring loaded. We have some "tethers" that will eliminate any chance of breaking out of the bumper zone, but immediately after the kick we will probably oscillate back and forth across the frame perimeter a few times before the grabber grabs it and brings it back for the 2nd shot.

At first, I was worried that we'd violate the first rule since our kicker will probably cross the frame perimeter a few times before we grab it again. After some head scratching, my team and I have surmised that as long as we reach out, grab, and retract the kicker within that first 2-second timer, then hold it inside for at least 2 seconds, then we're A-OK.

Thoughts?
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Unread 19-02-2010, 14:25
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

that should work but ars long as you find a way to keep it inside the frame perimeter for those 2 seconds.
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Unread 19-02-2010, 16:32
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldfusion1279 View Post
The rule is 2 seconds, not 20. You must wait at least 2 seconds between kicks. Probably a typo on your friend's part. This rule is in the manual, though I don't know the exact number off the top of my head.
Sort of. Our robot's kicker doesn't even extend outside the robot's frame. We could even kick a ball every .2 seconds with out being penalized, if that were possible.
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Unread 20-02-2010, 09:56
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

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Originally Posted by Ziaholic View Post
Which brings me to my reason for being in here ... our kicker is spring loaded. We have some "tethers" that will eliminate any chance of breaking out of the bumper zone, but immediately after the kick we will probably oscillate back and forth across the frame perimeter a few times before the grabber grabs it and brings it back for the 2nd shot.
This sounds illegal to me. The rule says

Quote:
<G30> ROBOT Volume – During a MATCH, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as follows:
a. BALL Interaction Volume – Solely for the purposes of interacting with a BALL, MECHANISMS that are below the BUMPER may extend up to the BUMPER PERIMETER, for a period not exceeding two seconds. After returning inside the FRAMER PERIMETER, such MECHANISMS are not permitted to re-extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER for at least two seconds.
After the mechanism returns inside the FRAME PERIMETER the first time, it cannot go outside the FRAME PERIMETER again for two seconds. So....if it goes out, then comes back in, it needs to wait two seconds before going out again. I think you'll need to control the oscillations. Or try limiting the travel so it cannot go past the frame perimeter--we found that we would not gain significant kicking distance with the extra 3" travel, so ours does not leave the frame.
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Unread 20-02-2010, 10:03
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
This sounds illegal to me. The rule says



After the mechanism returns inside the FRAME PERIMETER the first time, it cannot go outside the FRAME PERIMETER again for two seconds. So....if it goes out, then comes back in, it needs to wait two seconds before going out again. I think you'll need to control the oscillations. Or try limiting the travel so it cannot go past the frame perimeter--we found that we would not gain significant kicking distance with the extra 3" travel, so ours does not leave the frame.
(emphasis mine)

That's what I was worried about. My original concerns are exactly as you describe. I was later talked out of it by kinda' "lawyering" the phrase

Quote:
... may extend up to the BUMPER PERIMETER, for a period not exceeding two seconds.
I was hoping that during that 2 seconds, a few back-and-forths across the line would be OK, then I'd hold it inside for another 2-second count to ensure compliance with the 2nd part of that rule.

Hmmm.
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Unread 20-02-2010, 13:33
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Re: Kicking Clarification???

If y'all gotta lawyer the rule to be legal, then y'all should be reading the text at the beginning of Section 8.3:
Quote:
When reading these rules, please use technical common sense (engineering thinking) rather than “lawyering” the interpretation and splitting hairs over the precise wording in an attempt to find loopholes. Try to understand the reasoning behind a rule."
2 seconds means 2 seconds. It doesn't mean "out for 1/8 second, in for 1/16 second, repeat until out of time, wait 2 seconds, do it all again".
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