Go to Post I am surprised at the relative conservative capability you described on our 2006 machine. As for the 2007 machine, in anticipation of an aquatic game, we have completed a robot that "walks on water" and are well along with one that can "part the sea". - Bill Beatty [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Awards
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 00:04
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
Onward through the fog.
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 5,996
JaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post
Implementation: Reminds me of an FRC team getting an idea at 2:30 AM two days before ship and barely managing to implement it before ship. As in, it'll work, but it's almost certainly not the best way to do it.
That would stand a good chance of becoming a shipwreck.
__________________
Excellence is contagious. ~ Andy Baker, President, AndyMark, Inc. and Woodie Flowers Award 2003

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved.
~ Helen Keller
(1880-1968)
Reply With Quote
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 01:11
R.C.'s Avatar
R.C. R.C. is offline
2017... Oooh Kill em, Swerve!
AKA: Owner, WestCoast Products
FRC #1323 (MadTown Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Madera, CA
Posts: 2,189
R.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond reputeR.C. has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Alright,

Today as the deadline approached, our mentor got done with the Nomination around 1:00 pm Pacific time. I tried to upload the essay but got an error, so we had someone else on our team try and we got an error again.

Then our mentor tried though the TIMS, but that didn't seem to work either.

So he called up FIRST before the 4:30 EST deadline and FIRST told him that it had to go though the Student TIMS. He was not allowed to upload the nomination or email it to FIRST.

Has anyone else had the same problem? Its very disappointing not to get in due a problem with TIMS.

Thanks,

-RC
__________________
R.C.
Owner, WestCoast Products || Twitter
MadTown Robotics Team 1323
Reply With Quote
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 02:08
David Brinza's Avatar
David Brinza David Brinza is offline
Lead Mentor, Lead Robot Inspector
FRC #0980 (ThunderBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 1,379
David Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.C. View Post
Alright,

Today as the deadline approached, our mentor got done with the Nomination around 1:00 pm Pacific time. I tried to upload the essay but got an error, so we had someone else on our team try and we got an error again.

Then our mentor tried though the TIMS, but that didn't seem to work either.

So he called up FIRST before the 4:30 EST deadline and FIRST told him that it had to go though the Student TIMS. He was not allowed to upload the nomination or email it to FIRST.

Has anyone else had the same problem? Its very disappointing not to get in due a problem with TIMS.

Thanks,

-RC
Pretty much the same deal with us. Two essays were sent to FIRST via e-mail before 1:30 pm because our students don't have internet access in school. A call to FIRST indicated that they weren't able to accept the e-mail submission.

The real problem is that this award shouldn't be submitted by a student. But, FIRST didn't have time to develop an alternative submission method, so they were stuck with using STMPLGIS (or student TIMS).

Selecting the nominee(s) and essay writing should be done by mentors, otherwise it's a popularity contest (or worse). The notion that a student would read my assessment of the capabilities, commitment, contributions of a peer doesn't sit very well with me. That kind of evaluation should be kept discrete.
__________________
"There's never enough time to do it right, but always time to do it over."
2003 AZ: Semifinals, Motorola Quality; SoCal: Q-finals, Xerox Creativity; IRI: Q-finals
2004 AZ: Semifinals, GM Industrial Design; SoCal: Winners, Leadership in Controls; Championship: Galileo #2 seed, Q-finals; IRI: Champions
2005 AZ: #1 Seed, Xerox Creativity; SoCal: Finalist, RadioShack Controls; SVR: Winners, Delphi "Driving Tomorrow's Technologies"; Championship: Archimedes Semifinals; IRI: Finalist
2007 LA: Finalist; San Diego: Q-finals; CalGames: Finalist || 2008 San Diego: Q-finals; LA: Winners; CalGames: Finalist || 2009 LA: Semifinals; Las Vegas: Q-finals; IRI: #1 Seed, Finalist
2010 AZ: Motorola Quality; LA: Finalist || 2011 SD: Q-finals; LA: Q-finals || 2013 LA: Xerox Creativity, WFFA, Dean's List Finalist || 2014 IE: Q-finals, LA: Finalist, Dean's List Finalist
2016 Ventura: Q-finals, WFFA, Engineering Inspiration
Reply With Quote
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 03:05
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 6,825
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cory
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Brinza View Post
Pretty much the same deal with us. Two essays were sent to FIRST via e-mail before 1:30 pm because our students don't have internet access in school. A call to FIRST indicated that they weren't able to accept the e-mail submission.

The real problem is that this award shouldn't be submitted by a student. But, FIRST didn't have time to develop an alternative submission method, so they were stuck with using STMPLGIS (or student TIMS).

Selecting the nominee(s) and essay writing should be done by mentors, otherwise it's a popularity contest (or worse). The notion that a student would read my assessment of the capabilities, commitment, contributions of a peer doesn't sit very well with me. That kind of evaluation should be kept discrete.
We made a fake account with the student TIMS so the mentors could submit.
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
Reply With Quote
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 03:11
Akash Rastogi Akash Rastogi is offline
Jim Zondag is my Spirit Animal
FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Manchester, Connecticut
Posts: 7,009
Akash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond reputeAkash Rastogi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.C. View Post
Alright,

Today as the deadline approached, our mentor got done with the Nomination around 1:00 pm Pacific time. I tried to upload the essay but got an error, so we had someone else on our team try and we got an error again.

Then our mentor tried though the TIMS, but that didn't seem to work either.

So he called up FIRST before the 4:30 EST deadline and FIRST told him that it had to go though the Student TIMS. He was not allowed to upload the nomination or email it to FIRST.

Has anyone else had the same problem? Its very disappointing not to get in due a problem with TIMS.

Thanks,

-RC
This is very upsetting for me to hear RC. I hope your submission pulls through somehow.

Without you in the mix, its not a true competition
__________________
My posts and opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my affiliated team.
['16-'xx]: Mentor FRC 2170 | ['11-'13]: Co-Founder/Mentor FRC 3929 | ['06-'10]: Student FRC 11 - MORT | ['08-'12]: Founder - EWCP (OG)
Reply With Quote
  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 07:09
ebarker's Avatar
ebarker ebarker is online now
Registered User
AKA: Ed Barker
FRC #1311 (Kell Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Kennesaw GA
Posts: 1,437
ebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond reputeebarker has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post
..... then the execution is an EPIC FAIL. (It's currently close to regular fail.)
I'd like to see a good working definition of 'regular fail' and 'epic fail'..haha
__________________
Ed Barker
Reply With Quote
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 11:18
David Brinza's Avatar
David Brinza David Brinza is offline
Lead Mentor, Lead Robot Inspector
FRC #0980 (ThunderBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 1,379
David Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
We made a fake account with the student TIMS so the mentors could submit.
We gave some serious thought to doing that, but decided not to.

I really should have introduced "Ima Mentor" to our team. I wouldn't be whining so much now.
__________________
"There's never enough time to do it right, but always time to do it over."
2003 AZ: Semifinals, Motorola Quality; SoCal: Q-finals, Xerox Creativity; IRI: Q-finals
2004 AZ: Semifinals, GM Industrial Design; SoCal: Winners, Leadership in Controls; Championship: Galileo #2 seed, Q-finals; IRI: Champions
2005 AZ: #1 Seed, Xerox Creativity; SoCal: Finalist, RadioShack Controls; SVR: Winners, Delphi "Driving Tomorrow's Technologies"; Championship: Archimedes Semifinals; IRI: Finalist
2007 LA: Finalist; San Diego: Q-finals; CalGames: Finalist || 2008 San Diego: Q-finals; LA: Winners; CalGames: Finalist || 2009 LA: Semifinals; Las Vegas: Q-finals; IRI: #1 Seed, Finalist
2010 AZ: Motorola Quality; LA: Finalist || 2011 SD: Q-finals; LA: Q-finals || 2013 LA: Xerox Creativity, WFFA, Dean's List Finalist || 2014 IE: Q-finals, LA: Finalist, Dean's List Finalist
2016 Ventura: Q-finals, WFFA, Engineering Inspiration
Reply With Quote
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 11:21
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
Onward through the fog.
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 5,996
JaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
We made a fake account with the student TIMS so the mentors could submit.
I'm hearing a lot about getting around the system in order for the mentors to submit an essay or two that highlights the character of a student, hoping to garner a prestigious award that Dean Kamen has created to honor his parents. There's something very wrong. Especially when the team getting around the system is a HoF team.

With the way that it was set up this year, we took a collaborative approach, involving the students that had been selected by our team, in the process. Because of the different constraints involved, we approached the situation as best we could while continuing to maintain a semblance of order and integrity. When mentors from other teams contacted me seeking advice, I advised against doing anything to get around the system.

For this award, is it really that important that only mentors write and submit for the student(s) being honored? Or - is it valuable to include the student(s) and their team (and community) in which they are such a big part of and from where the inspiration has come? I can understand that mentors are asked to write college recommendations year after year, and we all take that very seriously and adhere to the privacy aspect of that. This is a little different. At least this year. One of our sub-team awards members e-mailed the essay submissions to the team yesterday. I printed them out and will frame them and place them where I can see them every day. Are they perfect? No. Could we have used a lot more time than we had. Absolutely. Am I proud as can be? Yes. Am I still frustrated? No. The students' tenacity and perseverance calmed me way down. They're good like that.

Jane
__________________
Excellence is contagious. ~ Andy Baker, President, AndyMark, Inc. and Woodie Flowers Award 2003

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved.
~ Helen Keller
(1880-1968)

Last edited by JaneYoung : 27-02-2010 at 11:38.
Reply With Quote
  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 12:05
David Brinza's Avatar
David Brinza David Brinza is offline
Lead Mentor, Lead Robot Inspector
FRC #0980 (ThunderBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 1,379
David Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

I agree that "gaming the system" is not the best way to go, but in this case, it's an indicator how broken the implementation really is.

Team 980 didn't have time to do the team collaborative approach to writing and approving the essays. But even if we did have the time, we don't think that is necessarily the best approach for determining and submitting nominees for this award.

Here is the Team 980 rationale for believing the Dean's List award is the purview of mentors not the students:

A "consensus" submission might turn the Dean's List award into a popularity contest within the team - not a good thing. Even worse, debates might arise among team members (remember, we're dealing with emotional teenagers who are as sleep-deprived and burned-out as the mentors) that actually harm the team. The Dean's List Award should be the mentors' opportunity to identify students that delivered above and beyond expectations. These students might be very shy, very driven, and/or even very "weird" in the eyes of their peers. An adult mentor can easily push aside the "petty stuff" and get to the heart of the matter for the Dean's List award: contribution, commitment, capability, and creativity.

A socially-adept student might contribute to team spirit and perhaps boost the number of students on the team. But I much rather have a student that takes on the design challenges and is committed to work creatively to meet those challenges. If this dedicated student isn't a Facebook friend with other team members, that student shouldn't be penalized in consideration of this award.

This year, no LEGAL mechanism existed in FIRST for mentors to make awards submissions. FIRST must address that next year. FIRST also should give due consideration to teams that did all they could to submit their Dean's List nominees on time - even if it was done by e-mail or FAX to HQ, or created a temporary "fake" account to submit the award.
__________________
"There's never enough time to do it right, but always time to do it over."
2003 AZ: Semifinals, Motorola Quality; SoCal: Q-finals, Xerox Creativity; IRI: Q-finals
2004 AZ: Semifinals, GM Industrial Design; SoCal: Winners, Leadership in Controls; Championship: Galileo #2 seed, Q-finals; IRI: Champions
2005 AZ: #1 Seed, Xerox Creativity; SoCal: Finalist, RadioShack Controls; SVR: Winners, Delphi "Driving Tomorrow's Technologies"; Championship: Archimedes Semifinals; IRI: Finalist
2007 LA: Finalist; San Diego: Q-finals; CalGames: Finalist || 2008 San Diego: Q-finals; LA: Winners; CalGames: Finalist || 2009 LA: Semifinals; Las Vegas: Q-finals; IRI: #1 Seed, Finalist
2010 AZ: Motorola Quality; LA: Finalist || 2011 SD: Q-finals; LA: Q-finals || 2013 LA: Xerox Creativity, WFFA, Dean's List Finalist || 2014 IE: Q-finals, LA: Finalist, Dean's List Finalist
2016 Ventura: Q-finals, WFFA, Engineering Inspiration

Last edited by David Brinza : 27-02-2010 at 12:55. Reason: Emphasize this is Team 980's perspective
Reply With Quote
  #25   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 12:15
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
Onward through the fog.
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 5,996
JaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Excellence rises and can be seen/experienced by everyone.
--
So as not to respond with yet another post, I'll add on here.

David, regarding your posts - I can't help but think that we are saying the same things only different. I have great respect for the struggle regarding the timing, the exhaustion of the mentors/students, and the frustrations of working with/contending with the new system set up for submitting for awards. Perhaps, sometimes FIRST forgets that we are all human when they ask for these extraordinary superhuman efforts.

Peace.
__________________
Excellence is contagious. ~ Andy Baker, President, AndyMark, Inc. and Woodie Flowers Award 2003

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved.
~ Helen Keller
(1880-1968)

Last edited by JaneYoung : 27-02-2010 at 13:08.
Reply With Quote
  #26   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 12:35
David Brinza's Avatar
David Brinza David Brinza is offline
Lead Mentor, Lead Robot Inspector
FRC #0980 (ThunderBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 1,379
David Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneYoung View Post
Excellence rises and can be seen/experienced by everyone.
I agree, and I didn't mean to infer that a consensus approach wouldn't work. I applaud your team's approach. I would be proud of the student's efforts as well.

There are some factors here that cannot be ignored. All of our team members would stand behind our nominees. Given the time constraints (for our team, one evening), selecting nominees and developing collaborative essays (which is what the award call required), would have been asking too much. We selected the two workhorse team leaders, then wrote from the mentor's perspective. Is that the best or correct approach? No, it's just what we could do under the constraints. I think things will be much better next year after FIRST sorts out the implementation.
__________________
"There's never enough time to do it right, but always time to do it over."
2003 AZ: Semifinals, Motorola Quality; SoCal: Q-finals, Xerox Creativity; IRI: Q-finals
2004 AZ: Semifinals, GM Industrial Design; SoCal: Winners, Leadership in Controls; Championship: Galileo #2 seed, Q-finals; IRI: Champions
2005 AZ: #1 Seed, Xerox Creativity; SoCal: Finalist, RadioShack Controls; SVR: Winners, Delphi "Driving Tomorrow's Technologies"; Championship: Archimedes Semifinals; IRI: Finalist
2007 LA: Finalist; San Diego: Q-finals; CalGames: Finalist || 2008 San Diego: Q-finals; LA: Winners; CalGames: Finalist || 2009 LA: Semifinals; Las Vegas: Q-finals; IRI: #1 Seed, Finalist
2010 AZ: Motorola Quality; LA: Finalist || 2011 SD: Q-finals; LA: Q-finals || 2013 LA: Xerox Creativity, WFFA, Dean's List Finalist || 2014 IE: Q-finals, LA: Finalist, Dean's List Finalist
2016 Ventura: Q-finals, WFFA, Engineering Inspiration
Reply With Quote
  #27   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 13:17
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 6,825
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cory
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneYoung View Post
I'm hearing a lot about getting around the system in order for the mentors to submit an essay or two that highlights the character of a student, hoping to garner a prestigious award that Dean Kamen has created to honor his parents. There's something very wrong. Especially when the team getting around the system is a HoF team.

With the way that it was set up this year, we took a collaborative approach, involving the students that had been selected by our team, in the process. Because of the different constraints involved, we approached the situation as best we could while continuing to maintain a semblance of order and integrity. When mentors from other teams contacted me seeking advice, I advised against doing anything to get around the system.

For this award, is it really that important that only mentors write and submit for the student(s) being honored? Or - is it valuable to include the student(s) and their team (and community) in which they are such a big part of and from where the inspiration has come? I can understand that mentors are asked to write college recommendations year after year, and we all take that very seriously and adhere to the privacy aspect of that. This is a little different. At least this year. One of our sub-team awards members e-mailed the essay submissions to the team yesterday. I printed them out and will frame them and place them where I can see them every day. Are they perfect? No. Could we have used a lot more time than we had. Absolutely. Am I proud as can be? Yes. Am I still frustrated? No. The students' tenacity and perseverance calmed me way down. They're good like that.

Jane
We barely had the time for the mentors to work on it, let alone to form a committee of students to get this done. We had two options here. The mentors write the submission and hope the kids can get it in on time, or the mentors write the submission and slightly circumvent the system (which is completely broken) to ensure that our students have the chance to be recognized. It was a no brainer to us.

I agree with everything that David has said. As mentors we know our students a LOT better than the students do. I also feel that the team does not need to know what we wrote about the students we submitted for.

The point here was to recognize an outstanding student (or two) on your team. We did our absolute best to make that happen, which is what any team should have done. I see absolutely no reason why that is "very wrong"
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
Reply With Quote
  #28   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 13:25
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
Onward through the fog.
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 5,996
JaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
We barely had the time for the mentors to work on it, let alone to form a committee of students to get this done. We had two options here. The mentors write the submission and hope the kids can get it in on time, or the mentors write the submission and slightly circumvent the system (which is completely broken) to ensure that our students have the chance to be recognized. It was a no brainer to us.

I agree with everything that David has said. As mentors we know our students a LOT better than the students do. I also feel that the team does not need to know what we wrote about the students we submitted for.

The point here was to recognize an outstanding student (or two) on your team. We did our absolute best to make that happen, which is what any team should have done. I see absolutely no reason why that is "very wrong"
Creating a false account was wrong, in my opinion.

What is very wrong is the way the rollout of the award was handled. That would be "very wrong" with any award. With a new award that already has too much prestige/value to be ignored - it is very wrong to put teams of your caliber with such an incredible reputation - into such difficult positions as to feel that you have to make choices like this. To put all the teams through this.

(In our case - it was a collaborative effort within the team - students and mentors working together.)
Jane
__________________
Excellence is contagious. ~ Andy Baker, President, AndyMark, Inc. and Woodie Flowers Award 2003

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved.
~ Helen Keller
(1880-1968)

Last edited by JaneYoung : 27-02-2010 at 13:34.
Reply With Quote
  #29   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 13:31
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is offline
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19,827
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebarker View Post
I'd like to see a good working definition of 'regular fail' and 'epic fail'..haha
Regular: Something's screwed up a little bit. SNAFU, only minor.
Epic: "Something" hit the fan. Major SNAFU.

(I thought about posting a quantitative version, but then realized that I'm the only one on here who knows the units for that one and what they mean.)

The rollout would have been best left for next year, or earlier than it was this year, IMO.
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk

Reply With Quote
  #30   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-02-2010, 13:33
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
no bag, vex only, final destination
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #0228 (GUS Robotics); FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 7,797
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Chris is me
Re: FIRST Dean's List- Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsisk View Post
I really like the idea of the award, it is the perfect compliment to the Woodie Flower's award for mentors.
My only concern award is that I hope the award doesn't take anything away from the Woodie Flower's Award. I was a little used to the concept of awarding adult mentors as the only individual recognition.

The short time frame didn't give me time to write essays about students that particularly inspired me, but they wrote about each other fast enough to submit.

I guess in a way this is a lot like the IRI Scholarships in terms of honoring student achievement.
__________________
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-?)
--2016 Waterbury SFs (with 3314, 3719), RIDE #2 Seed / Winners (with 1058, 6153), Carver QFs (with 503, 359, 4607)
Mentor / Consultant Person: 2170 (2017-?)
.
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015)
-- 2015 TVR Motorola Quality, FLR GM Industrial Design -- 2014 FLR Motorola Quality / SFs (with 341, 4930)
-- 2013 BAE Motorola Quality, WPI Regional #1 Seed / Delphi Excellence in Engineering / Finalists (with 20, 3182)
-- 2012 BAE Imagery / Finalists (with 1519, 885), CT Xerox Creativity / SFs (with 2168, 118)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 MN 10K Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
2791 Build Season Photo Gallery - Look here for mechanism photos My Robotics Blog (Updated April 11 2014)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The 'Dean's List' archiver 1999 0 23-06-2002 23:21
'Dean's List' archiver 2000 0 23-06-2002 22:14
'Dean's List' archiver 2000 0 23-06-2002 22:14
The 'Dean's List' archiver 2000 1 23-06-2002 21:54


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:13.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi