pic: MARS 1523: Our New Tesla

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by DarkFlame145

Not to mention if you live inner city (where an electric car would be most effective), were do you plug it in at currently?

That is one reason they can't mass produce electric cars becuase they don't have plugs in every gas station, plus they take time to charge. That is why the Volt is becoming popular as it goes 40 miles on electric, switches to gas, and charges the battery in that time.

Oh darn I'll just keep filling my sister's 1990 Camry with 35mpg until they come out.

Yay, a debate!

Oh, wait the topic is on the feasibility of marketing and mass producing an electric car... Well, I'm not a statistician, so I really shouldn't speak about the statistics of the issue. I'm not a marketing guy, so I can't speak to the issue of selling them. I'm not a civil engineer, so I can't speak to the grid requirements.

However, I am a car enthusiast, and I can speak to the fact that driving a Tesla was one of the most incredible experiences I've had, and puts any doubt out of my mind that electric isn't good enough for America.

[DarkFlame145]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

That is one reason they can't mass produce electric cars becuase they don't have plugs in every gas station, plus they take time to charge. That is why the Volt is becoming popular as it goes 40 miles on electric, switches to gas, and charges the battery in that time.

Oh darn I'll just keep filling my sister's 1990 Camry with 35mpg until they come out.

I honestly dont see why everyone is so excited for the Volt, its not a pure electric vehicle, its a new style of Hybrid (A much better system of hybrid then was it out already). But the point of an electric vehicle is to not need the use of gas. But yet everyone is praising how the Volt is the next Prius. Part of it is how GM is advertising it. But a hybrid of any type is not the fix to the emissions problems the modern combustion engine, its just putting a band-aid on a very large gash. Sure it will help, but its not a fix. As I had stated before an Electric car will not work for most people until the weight comes down, the price comes down, the charging time (all three will happen, just who knows how long it will take), and the problem of where to charge it at. We are going to have to put curb side charging stations all over our cities. I mean if you live in the country or in a small town it's no problem, just run an extension cord, since they will charge off 110V. Every single alternative energy powertrain for cars have so many road blocks, why not just make the modern combustion engine more efficient? I mean Diesel is a great alternative to gas. Why not focus of developing more and better diesel engines?

[EricH]

Every alternative energy drivetrain has roadblocks. True.

Why not focus on developing better engines of your favorite variety (diesel or gas)?

Because at some point, it becomes economically non-viable to do so. If it was economically viable to engineer an engine to have 60 MPG right now, you can bet that somebody would have done so! But at the present time, it's not economically viable. Give it a couple of years or so.

Why are people working on EV technology? Because it may not be economically viable right now, but it's getting very close. As soon as it is, you can bet that the companies that currently have the technology to make EVs will be making money hand over fist, as they'll either have the market-ready stuff, or they'll be making a lot in patent royalties from other companies that are building EVs using their technology. And, what they're working on can improve the hybrids.

The obstacles to an EV are simple: Range (how far you can drive without charging), Price (those batteries are expensive), Charge time, Performance, Size/weight. All of those are improving.

[Tanner]

I find it slightly funny this topic shifted to a discussion on electric vs gas cars.

Neat picture. Would've been nice to get a shot of the motor (guess I can't call it a "engine"), but I would've been to excited to worry about pictures. Very cool.

-Tanner

[Salbert]

Originally Posted by Tanner

I find it slightly funny this topic shifted to a discussion on electric vs gas cars.

Neat picture. Would've been nice to get a shot of the motor (guess I can't call it a "engine"), but I would've been to excited to worry about pictures. Very cool.

-Tanner

We've got a picture of the engine here. It's in the trunk.

[MARS_James]

Originally Posted by Salbert

We've got a picture of the engine here. It's in the trunk.

Sal those are the batteries

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by DarkFlame145

I honestly dont see why everyone is so excited for the Volt, its not a pure electric vehicle, its a new style of Hybrid (A much better system of hybrid then was it out already). But the point of an electric vehicle is to not need the use of gas. But yet everyone is praising how the Volt is the next Prius. Part of it is how GM is advertising it. But a hybrid of any type is not the fix to the emissions problems the modern combustion engine, its just putting a band-aid on a very large gash. Sure it will help, but its not a fix

First, there is not and probably will never be one solution to climate change/our overdependence on oil. We need to cut down a little here and a little there. So, if you are waiting for the perfect solution, you will be waiting a very very very long time. I think we should use these economically efficient and environmentally friendly technologies while we are researching bigger and better technologies.

[BrendanB]

Um climate change will never end! It is defined by changes in weather patterns.

[DarkFlame145]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

First, there is not and probably will never be one solution to climate change/our overdependence on oil. We need to cut down a little here and a little there. So, if you are waiting for the perfect solution, you will be waiting a very very very long time. I think we should use these economically efficient and environmentally friendly technologies while we are researching bigger and better technologies.

Emissions from cars are a major source of green house gases. Some people are under the impression that driving a hybrid vehicle will help "save the planet." Even though studies have shown that hybrid drivers tend to drive more then none hybrid owners. Also when you scrap a hybrid you end up doing more damage due to the batteries being dumped. Trust me I know that there is no one fix, but if people want to try to make a eco friendly car, then go hydrogen. All it puts out is water and oxygen.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by DarkFlame145

Even though studies have shown that hybrid drivers tend to drive more then none hybrid owners.

That's good, right? The people that are driving the most should be using the most efficient cars. Or are you saying that having a hyrid makes you drive more and thus leds to more CO2 emissions? Darn, this would be a lot easier is correlation did mean causation...

But, your point about disposing the batteries is probably valid. I'm sure all those smart engineers can solve that, though.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

That's good, right? The people that are driving the most should be using the most efficient cars. Or are you saying that having a hyrid makes you drive more and thus leds to more CO2 emissions? Darn, this would be a lot easier is correlation did mean causation...

But, your point about disposing the batteries is probably valid. I'm sure all those smart engineers can solve that, though.

When you buy a Tesla Roadster, your purchase cost also pays to have the battery pack recycled at the end of it's life. Toyota also pays to have Prius batteries recycled, so I assume that cost is hidden somewhere's in the purchase price as well.

I am not sure how other manufacturers work, but I imagine (or at least hope!) that they also have a recycling plan.

[MooreteP]

Originally Posted by DarkFlame145

Emissions from cars are a major source of green house gases. Some people are under the impression that driving a hybrid vehicle will help "save the planet." Even though studies have shown that hybrid drivers tend to drive more then none hybrid owners. Also when you scrap a hybrid you end up doing more damage due to the batteries being dumped. Trust me I know that there is no one fix, but if people want to try to make a eco friendly car, then go hydrogen. All it puts out is water and oxygen.

No No No.

Energy can be neither created nor destroyed, it can only change form. And every time it changes form, nature takes a tax in the form of heat.

1) Hydrogen is the smallest atom, building a "cage" to effectively contain it is nigh impossible. It is also one of the most corrosive elements.

2) What process are you going to use to get your hydrogen gas? What would be its efficiency? In this process, there will be more pollutants than just "water".

In films, we often see car crashes that result in spectacular "explosions". That, like sound and fire in the vacuum of space, is a cinematic conceit. But if we had hydrogen fueled vehicles, it would become a reality. And then some.

The internal combustion engine has achieved an impressive state of the art efficiency and will be hard pressed to go beyond 50 mpg unless we can find a way to enclose all roadways in vacuum tubes. (exhausting the heat energy then becomes an issue )

Hybrids are effective at converting kinetic energy to electrical and back again with a small tax in heat to provide the same efficiency in the stop and go drive in a city per the highway.
However, the environmental cost of the batteries is no small consideration.

The previous post regarding pumped and centrifugal storage for peak vs. non-peak supply provides a good idea.

Volvo is working on a hybrid that stores braking energy in a small centrifugal storage unit. It is mechanical, lightweight, and has little of the environmental drawbacks of battery storage.
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/vol...e-braking.html

There is also work being done with Ultra Capacitors that store the electrical energy physically vs. chemically. This is also better than batteries in that they are lighter. However, bridge the gap and you could be killed.

Emergency workers have been trained on using the "Jaws of Life" to free accident victims in hybrids. Cutting the cables on a hybrid vehicle with their higher voltage systems is an issue.
http://gas2.org/2009/01/25/dont-get-electricuted/

So, to forestall the inevitable DT's of our addiction to fossil fuels.
Nuclear plant baseloading, Wind and solar supplements spread around the grid in our homes and communities. Geothermal heat pumps where practical and solar street lights.

Of course, none of this will matter after 12/21/12 , but just in case, we can prep.

[bEdhEd]

My envy is so incredible right now. I could just imagine a Tesla for my team in hunter green and black, and with accents of gold and white.