pic: Bumper idea - legal?

[Wayne Doenges]

The only problem I see with the fold over bumper cover design is how do you keep the ends covered in the correct color?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

Dave,
Thank you for your thoughts on the matter.

This not being an official FIRST forum, I am asking your opinion, with the explicit understanding that your opinion (possibly expressed here) carries no weight at all as far as inspection, rules, or competitions are concerned. That is, your opinion is not an official communication from FIRST. Just some guy's opinion.

Is it legal to use the idea presented here?

Don
.

Don, the Q&A said to read Update #9. http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=14549

Given that it met all bumper rules with either color showing, my (unofficial) opinion is that it would pass inspection.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by EricH

Don, the Q&A said to read Update #9.

Ah, I didn't get that connection; I was a little fuzzy on how we got from the idea to #9; now I see it was directly through Q&A. OK then.

I don't want to put words into Dave's mouth (but I will anyway) but I think he was just reminding us that there are other issues to consider when skinning a bumper...

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Rule <R07> discusses the bumpers. Rule <R12-B> discusses removable/reversible covers. The changes to Rule <R12-B> in Update #9 do not affect the fact that Rule <R07> still requires that the BUMPERS be a single, solid red or blue color.

The wording you cite in <R07>, paragraph F is ambiguous, because the removable fabric cover is also "[t]he fabric covering the BUMPERS" (it is fabric, it is a cover, and it is identified as part of the bumpers in <R10> and by implication in the preface to <R07>).

If you interpret <R07F> to deal with the fabric directly enclosing the pool noodles, or all fabric in the bumpers, then I agree, your interpretation is accurate. However, if you interpret the same paragraph to refer instead to the single layer of "fabric covering the BUMPERS", then the combination of <R07> and <R12> does not restrict the colour of the rest of the bumper, when properly covered with a red or blue fabric shroud.

Is the intent of that part of the rule simply to permit clear identification, or also to restrict the selection of fabric colours and markings that will be invisible during matches?

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

If you interpret <R07F> to deal with the fabric directly enclosing the pool noodles, or all fabric in the bumpers, then I agree, your interpretation is accurate. However, if you interpret the same paragraph to refer instead to the single layer of "fabric covering the BUMPERS", then the combination of <R07> and <R12> does not restrict the colour of the rest of the bumper, when properly covered with a red or blue fabric shroud.

Read the second paragraph of Section 8.3 of The Manual. Apply Occam's Razor. Which interpretation do you think is true?

Or, just show up at a competition with purple and yellow plaid bumpers at a competition and try to pass inspection.




.

[billbo911]

As mentioned before, there is one thing that must be taken into account when using this bumper cover configuration. Do not forget that the ends of the bumpers must also be wrapped in such a way that ONLY the alliance color you are on at that time can be seen.
The banging around that is sure to happen in this game can very easily place considerable forces on the cover fabric. Those forces need to be anticipated and handled in a way that will prevent the cover from slipping and exposing the opposing alliance color.

<R12-B> Alternately, the ROBOT may use changeable BUMPER covers. The BUMPER covers
Each ROBOT may be built with two complete sets of interchangeable BUMPERS, one red and one blue. If this method is chosen, the BUMPERS must be identical except for the color of the covering fabric (see Rule <R07-F>).
− may be removable, reversible, or fixed
− must completely enclose the BUMPERS
− must show only a single color such that when the BUMPER covers are in use, only fabric of the assigned ALLIANCE color may be visible...

I'm getting the distinct impression from Dave that this will be strictly enforced. The bottom line is, you can spend up to $8500 to build a robot and enter a competition, but every rule must be met to the letter or you can't participate. IMHO, that is as it should be. Otherwise, why have rules?

[Alex Cormier]

Does the velcro have to bed red/blue?

[yoda92]

The Velcro on the bumpers does not need to be red/blue because the Velcro should never show
I'd suggest something along the lines of fishing wire for the "heavy duty stitching"

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Read the second paragraph of Section 8.3 of The Manual. Apply Occam's Razor. Which interpretation do you think is true?

When experienced FIRST participants such as Gary and I arrive at a different interpretation than you do—and yet, that interpretation relies only upon the plainest meaning of "cover", i.e. that which keeps the inside from being on the outside—it is hardly fitting to liken it to the difference between lawyers and engineers.

[hipsterjr]

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges

The only problem I see with the fold over bumper cover design is how do you keep the ends covered in the correct color?

We have made a set of reversable bumpers and that has been the tricky part.

[Cynette]

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges

The only problem I see with the fold over bumper cover design is how do you keep the ends covered in the correct color?

Originally Posted by hipsterjr

We have made a set of reversable bumpers and that has been the tricky part.

After much wrangling and wrestling with the bumpers, especially with the soft ended ones, we came up with a very simple solution, which was very good because I was at the point of begging to make a second set of bumpers!

Add a strip of fabric to the flap about 2-1/2 inches wide and 5-6 inches long and sew it to align with the seam line joining the two colors where the flap starts. Put sturdy velcro on the strip and a matching piece on the back or the bumper (or on the adjacent bumper). When you fold the ends pull this strip the whole way over the end and secure the velcro. It holds all of the end fabric in place and hides any stray edges of the wrong color.

If you need a better description or photos to help you from tearing the blasted bumpers to shreds, let me know.

[Bob Steele]

We finished our bumpers and have them on the robot. We tailored the corners so they can fold over on themselves and cover... they have velcro.

I will continue to salute the team that came up with this innovate design..and to those that have boldly gone ahead and done it...and made it work.

I will continue to choose to believe that the spirit of the regulations is what is important... the intent ot his rule should be plain to anyone without meadering the rules..or worrying about it.

When you go on the field you should be identified as either the red or the blue alliance based on the bumper color.

Dave mentioned this rule:

<R07-F>. The fabric covering the BUMPERS must be solid red or solid blue in color. Visually, the red or blue must be as close to the corresponding color in the FIRST logo as reasonable (i.e. to a reasonably astute observer, they appear similar). The only markings permitted on the BUMPER fabric cover are the team number (see Rule <R15>).

One can read that many ways.... and if your bumpers are capable of being covered by solid red or blue fabric...the intent AND the word of the rule are satisfied.

Covering means what is on the OUTSIDE of the bumper...

Good luck and have a great time at the competition
We hope to see you on the field...

We have a pic of our robot on CD here with the bumpers on if anyone wants to do a quick search...blue out in the pic...

take care

[O'Sancheski]

that is exactly what team paragon did... they are the coolest bumbers we have ever had

[JesseK]

For the teams that tried this idea -- did the bumpers pass inspection and how well did they work?

[Cynette]

Absolutely! It was fun with the first weigh-in for our team. We put the red covered bumpers on the scale and the inspector said, "I need to see the blue ones, too." One of our team mentors, who was standing there, turned to a team member and said, "Go get the blue bumpers." The team member got a very confused look on his face. He turned to go and then turned back and said, "Wait, we only have one set!" Then it was the mentor's turn to look confused!

Our only problem with them was in Atlanta when the robot hooked on the robot gate with the bumper with enough force to pull the velcroed flap open to expose the other color. The drive team made sure to take an extra few seconds after that to make sure the cover was pulled tight and the velcro pieces aligned. Compared to some of the saggy bumper covers we saw, the two sided ones were much more elegant!