Charging pneumatics system before match

[DonRotolo]

At NJ we arrived on the field pre-charged, with a safety lock-out (a metal bar with a long bright pink flag attached to it) that was the last thing pulled off the robot before the team left the robot on the field.

Checklist: Robot on, thinkamajig set, autonomous set, safety bar pulled.

[PaW]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

Checklist: Robot on, thinkamajig set, autonomous set, safety bar pulled.

Gotta love the use of universal technical terms, along with whatchamacallit, doodlespiel, whosiwhatsit...

[1t5h1e1o]

Ed,

In 2008 we used pneumatics for our arm and gripper. What we would do is have the controls all set to charge went we got into queue and then with one minute left in the match before ours, charge it up. This way we aren't walking around with a robot that is "locked and loaded", but at the same time we weren't delaying the start of the match by doing it on the field during match setup.

Now, there wasn't as much of a risk with stored energy then like a kicker this year, so I would definitely recommend a safety bar/latch of some sort.

[Dad1279]

Tetra year was the last year we needed to pre-charge, and we did it in the queue also, when the match in front of us was almost over.

This year we can fill the tank(s) in the pit, our system doesn't fill cylinders until autonomous starts.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by 1t5h1e1o

Ed,

In 2008 we used pneumatics for our arm and gripper. What we would do is have the controls all set to charge went we got into queue and then with one minute left in the match before ours, charge it up. This way we aren't walking around with a robot that is "locked and loaded", but at the same time we weren't delaying the start of the match by doing it on the field during match setup.

Now, there wasn't as much of a risk with stored energy then like a kicker this year, so I would definitely recommend a safety bar/latch of some sort.

I like this approach very much!

[JamesCH95]

Our team is going to start with pre-charged pneumatics because they keep our kicker locked in a safe position. In fact, all of our pneumatics are designed to store in a safe position with the power off, so our robot is arguably safer with the pneumatics completely pressurized.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

Our team is going to start with pre-charged pneumatics because they keep our kicker locked in a safe position. In fact, all of our pneumatics are designed to store in a safe position with the power off, so our robot is arguably safer with the pneumatics completely pressurized.

James,
You will have to convince your Lead Robot Inspector at each event you attend. I find this hard to believe without seeing it.

[thefro526]

In the last three years that we've used pneumatics (2006, 2007, and 2008) we would pressurize the system prior to the beginning of the match. We would wait until there was about 1 to 2 minutes left in the match before us and then tether our robot and let the compressor run. This meant that our robot was only charged for a minute or two at most before the match actually started.

Provided this approach is deemed acceptable this year we will probably do the same. Also, our robot will be set so that the kicker is in the fired position as the starting position. This should help to prevent any accidents that could be caused by the kicker firing by mistake.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Dustin,
Just to be sure, your kicker will not be outside of the frame perimeter at the begining of the match?

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Dustin,
Just to be sure, your kicker will not be outside of the frame perimeter at the begining of the match?

Al,

The kicker cannot leave the frame perimeter due to a mechanical stop (Steel Shaft) so it will be within the frame perimeter at match start. I've found that we can prove this quickly with a level or other straight edge.

Knowing that, would you say that that is an acceptable starting configuration? In terms of legality and safety? I feel that it should be.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Dustin,
This is the primary rule and it references other rules...

<G30> ROBOT Volume – During a MATCH, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as follows:
a. BALL Interaction Volume – Solely for the purposes of interacting with a BALL, MECHANISMS that are below the BUMPER may extend up to the BUMPER PERIMETER, for a period not exceeding two seconds. After returning inside the FRAMER PERIMETER, such MECHANISMS are not permitted to re-extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER for at least two seconds.

And...

<G10> ROBOT Size – Prior to the MATCH, each ROBOT shall not exceed the NORMAL CONFIGURATION maximum weight or volume specified in Rule <R10>. The Head Referee may call for an inspector's recertification of the ROBOT size and weight prior to the start of any MATCH. Violation (for ROBOTS prior to the match): Prohibition from participating in the MATCH.

Referenced is this...

NORMAL CONFIGURATION – The physical configuration and orientation of the ROBOT when the MATCH is started. This is the state of the ROBOT immediately before being enabled by the Field Management System, before the ROBOT takes any actions, deploys any mechanisms, or moves away from the starting location. This configuration is static, and does not change during a single MATCH (although it may change from MATCH to MATCH).

So as you describe it, I would think it is acceptable.

[jspatz1]

We have the same need to enter the field with full pressure, and it has never been a problem for us to turn on and charge the system while waiting in queue for the match. The field director at your event could have his own rules, but I think this will be a common need this year.

However there is a pitfall that you need to be aware of. Running your DS just before your match can cause communication problems. If you start up before your team number has come up in the field system, your DS will may not link up properly. We had problems with our DS not communicating and other teams had problems caused by turning on too early. If you turn on in queue to charge your pneumatics, make sure you turn off your robot and log out of the DS before you go on. Wait 15 seconds or so after your team number comes up on the field banner before logging back in and starting your DS. Wait until the DS is ready and confirms the link before turning on your robot on the field. We don't want to see anyone have the same problem that struck us a couple of times in week 1.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

James,
You will have to convince your Lead Robot Inspector at each event you attend. I find this hard to believe without seeing it.

We've got two pistons that retract the kicker, if the latch got bumped loose without the system energized the kicker would snap open. With the system energized the kicker is held firmly in place. Does that make sense?

At least when I was a student pre-charging the pneumatics was never an issue.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

It is hard to visualize without a picture. Your LRI will make the decision when he/she sees it.

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

We've got two pistons that retract the kicker, if the latch got bumped loose without the system energized the kicker would snap open. With the system energized the kicker is held firmly in place. Does that make sense?

At least when I was a student pre-charging the pneumatics was never an issue.

Pre-charging the pneumatics by itself is not a huge issue. However, this year, many teams are using that air pressure to deform springs. Weather latched or held by air, the deformed springs can and usually do present a hazard for your team members as they carry a robot on and off the field. In addition to your team members, there are issues with the field personnel and people in the pits.

Your statement that the air pressure holds the system in a safe configuration begs the question of what happens if an air hose lets loose.

Regards,

Mike