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View Poll Results: Do you agree that teams should be able to work on their robot until their first comp.
I completely agree. 24 16.22%
I agree with some of it. 19 12.84%
I disagree. (please explain) 90 60.81%
I don't think it will work. (please explain) 15 10.14%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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  #76   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-03-2010, 20:32
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

Think something that was mentioned in the original post hasn't been talked about. What about those kids who come to learn?
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Unread 04-03-2010, 20:37
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exprg:melonhead View Post
i understand where you are coming from, and i'm not trying to say the only reason for competition is to win. that is far from the truth. what i'm trying to say is that it's not about the spotlight either. i just think there is better ways of practicing. but to be honest with you, if our team was wealthy enough to do that, we definitely would, but the major question is "is it the right thing to do?"
Yes. See this thread from 2008 on why.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...le+regional s
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Unread 04-03-2010, 20:43
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drwisley View Post
We need more teams. You could probably quote Dean for saying that at each kickoff.
No, we need sustainable teams. If you give a team a check for $6,000 and say "Here, build a robot", that's a team that will probably be overwhelmed and drop out a year or two later due to inadequate funding and mentor/teacher support. That is entirely counterproductive to FIRST's goal.
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Unread 04-03-2010, 20:48
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

I think there may be another aspect, and If I missed it having been said I apologize. First is a very intense and time consuming venture. I think we may need to consider balance of activities.I do not know what subject load other students have on other teams, but for my students it puts a strain on their studies. Once ship day comes, much time is used catching up on school work and preparing for AP tests. From my point of view as a sponsor & teacher my life pretty much goes on hold for 6 weeks. Like many others, I have other commitment and pass times in my life. If teams kept their robots for extended periods of time the commitments of the students and coaches and sponsors and mentors would be extended and I believe many teams would have trouble keeping active sponsors and mentors, who volunteer their time, for an 8, 10 or 12 week period. My $.02.
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Unread 04-03-2010, 20:51
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drwisley View Post
Asking versus earning.
If in fact you are suggesting that teams with corporate sponsors don't earn what they have, then I am totally speechless. To me, that is completely disrespectful to teams that have a solid economic base for their team and strive to be able to fund themselves. Asking for money and getting it doesn't mean it isn't earned. Getting companies to sponsor you is not as simple as asking and getting. It's asking AND earning, but even if money did just land in people's laps, it's still disrespectful to tell them straight up that they didn't earn it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drwisley View Post
How are you fundraising? I don't consider finding sponsorships, fundraising, but if you're selling 10k in cupcakes .. I won't argue with you.
I'm sorry we are having this difficulty with the intricacies of language. I would classify any form or raising funds as fundraising (hence the name).

Half of debating is understanding other people's language. A lot of time can be spent deciphering a slight difference in interpretation.
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Unread 04-03-2010, 20:55
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto View Post
Because pursuing local companies, contacting them, organizing robot demonstrations at their facilities, inviting them to regional competitions, and placing their logo on your robot, T-shirts and banners is no work at all. The teams with 25k+ budgets didn't work for those sponsorships right? The money just fell in their laps?
I suppose writing on a piece of cardboard and sitting on a corner with a cup is also work.

The benefit of FIRST doesn't come from the competition. My company sponsors many teams each year, but we'd rather fund more teams than fund multiple regional trips.
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Unread 04-03-2010, 21:03
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
There is no advantage to one team or another. We all would have the same amount of time to work on the robot. Sure week six would have more competition as it does now. But right now the teams that can afford to go to 4 events have a huge advantage because they get 3 days to work on their robot at every comp when everyone else got none because they couldn’t afford more competitions.
No, teams competing in week 6 will have an extra month to work on their robots while teams competing this week will be done. FIRST is not about the robots, it is about inspiring students to pursue careers in forms of engineering. If it is all about the robot to you, I would recommend that you re-evaluate why you are involved with FIRST.
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Unread 04-03-2010, 21:10
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrendanB View Post
No, teams competing in week 6 will have an extra month to work on their robots while teams competing this week will be done. FIRST is not about the robots, it is about inspiring students to pursue careers in forms of engineering. If it is all about the robot to you, I would recommend that you re-evaluate why you are involved with FIRST.
The Week 5 teams play the Week 1 teams when?
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Unread 04-03-2010, 21:15
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
No, we need sustainable teams. If you give a team a check for $6,000 and say "Here, build a robot", that's a team that will probably be overwhelmed and drop out a year or two later due to inadequate funding and mentor/teacher support. That is entirely counterproductive to FIRST's goal.
Some of those teams will become sustainable, but throwing $6k to an already established team will not create a new sustainable team. Also, those students will have learned something that year and it wont' be about failure.
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Unread 04-03-2010, 21:17
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

Cory, I don't think anyone heard you. Hey out there, did you not see that there would be a huge drop in mentors if it went longer. In many cases that means that their financial aid will disappear as well.

Has anyone thought that if the season was longer that the better teams will improve 10 fold? Teams get out what they put in. It's a fact that cannot be denied. Deadlines are also a reality in the real world. I am sorry kids but if you think that the real world will wait by while you miss deadlines and say you want more time to complete, you are living in a dreamland.
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Unread 04-03-2010, 21:21
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgreco View Post
If in fact you are suggesting that teams with corporate sponsors don't earn what they have, then I am totally speechless. To me, that is completely disrespectful to teams that have a solid economic base for their team and strive to be able to fund themselves. Asking for money and getting it doesn't mean it isn't earned. Getting companies to sponsor you is not as simple as asking and getting. It's asking AND earning, but even if money did just land in people's laps, it's still disrespectful to tell them straight up that they didn't earn it.



I'm sorry we are having this difficulty with the intricacies of language. I would classify any form or raising funds as fundraising (hence the name).

Half of debating is understanding other people's language. A lot of time can be spent deciphering a slight difference in interpretation.
All language requires interpretation, so please don't start quoting Webster.

We're probably at opposites of the spectrum here. I run a team that is completely sponsored by my company. I actually spend time recruiting students each year. I won't spend money on a second regional.

I judge the success of my program, not by winning a regional, by how many students I progress to the next level of FIRST, college.
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Unread 04-03-2010, 21:28
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
The Week 5 teams play the Week 1 teams when?
A few in Atlanta, but nearly 300+ teams do not get past week one events.
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Unread 04-03-2010, 21:37
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrendanB View Post
A few in Atlanta, but nearly 300+ teams do not get past week one events.
Okay, so their less capable robots don't interact with more capable robots. The problem here is?
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Unread 04-03-2010, 21:43
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
Okay, so their less capable robots don't interact with more capable robots. The problem here is?
Because the week 5 robots were in their shops getting fined tuned for competition for weeks while week one teams had one week to get ready to compete. How is that fair?
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Unread 04-03-2010, 21:46
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Re: Vote to change the format of FIRST.

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Originally Posted by BrendanB View Post
Because the week 5 robots were in their shops getting fined tuned for competition for weeks while week one teams had one week to get ready to compete. How is that fair?
Life isn't fair. Consider these inconsequential instances of unfairness preparation for the real world. Seriously, none of this really matters in the big picture. The ironic thing here is that some of the people who campaign for the "It's not about the robots!" platform are in fact making it all about the robots. If it's not about the robots (and it isn't, completely), then it does not matter what week teams go to regionals, how much money they have, how many times they compete, if the students or mentors build it, or any other petty argument that pops up on Chief every few months.

The only thing that matters is that teams are inspiring their students
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