Vote to change the format of FIRST. Part 2

[IndySam]

I honestly don't understand bringing this stuff up now. Can't we get through this year before discussing what we need to change?

[efoote868]

Could you please explain to me the problem you see with FIRST?
Could you please explain how your proposal will "fix" the problem?


If the problem is that FIRST isn't fair, then I STRONGLY disagree that's a problem, and my vote is to leave it alone.

[artdutra04]

As FRC continues to grow, the costs of "free" shipping that get eaten by FIRST and/or FexEx will only continue to grow. There will be a point where these costs may be too high to continue to justify, and either it will cost teams money to ship robot crates or we will have to switch to bag-n-tag self shipping.

Your average FRC robot will fit into a pickup truck, SUV, or minivan. Chances are that at least one mentor on your team owns such a vehicle and can volunteer to drive the robot to and from events. Being able to work on the robot for three days (the equivalent of a regional competition) would be a nice asset. Honestly, because of the various issues brought about as a result of eliminating the ship date, I'd rank this as the best possible outcome.

As for the teams that want to attend cross-country Regionals, I have two words: road trip! Well, at least for one mentor. And a navigator. And a back seat driver that criticizes that the GPS is wrong and that they know a "shortcut". And a fourth person, because odd-numbered groups of people never seem right. Multi-day car trips aren't that bad. I've taken more 1000+ road trips than I can count on one hand, and they can be really fun* (as long as you have an EZ Pass).

* And you don't drive through northern New Jersey near NYC; seriously, it stinks (the rest of Jersey is fine).

Originally Posted by TomBot

I'm missing the part where we actually have a choice in this matter.

This needs to be put in here more than the once that it was posted.

[Bruceb]

All I would like to see is the rules simplified. There is something like a 50 page thread here on the subject of bolt heads and frame perimeter. Rediculous!
Bruce

[Kage]

we already ship our robot from event to event...

and you should have an option for "there isnt another thing I want to change"
because the only option I checked was "leave the season the length it is"

EDIT: oh, I misunderstood this pole somewhat... the way it was worded along with the topic made it seem like you were saying that you CANT already ship your robot from event to event...

[Kage]

Originally Posted by Bruceb

All I would like to see is the rules simplified. There is something like a 50 page thread here on the subject of bolt heads and frame perimeter. Rediculous!
Bruce

that new rule was kinda a pain in the butt, because it said that you *could* have bolt heads outside your frame perimeter...
we did not really understand the rule, and could not figure out what was accaptable and what was not.
but my team kept arguing if we should risk it or not, and some people wanted to risk it, and others did not...
we ended up countersinking everything around the perimeter.

That rule, and the new scoring system (Wich I was alerted to when we went 4 and 0 in our first matches at GSR today, and were in 14th... nobody could figure out what was going on, until we were reminded of the new scoring :|)
are a pain in the butt to comprehend and put a definitive opinion on.

The only thing I can think of that I would want changed, is the scoring system...
I want wins/losses back!
other than that, FIRST is perfectly fine the way it is in my opinion...

[Rizner]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

As FRC continues to grow, the costs of "free" shipping that get eaten by FIRST and/or FexEx will only continue to grow. There will be a point where these costs may be too high to continue to justify, and either it will cost teams money to ship robot crates or we will have to switch to bag-n-tag self shipping.

Your average FRC robot will fit into a pickup truck, SUV, or minivan. Chances are that at least one mentor on your team owns such a vehicle and can volunteer to drive the robot to and from events. Being able to work on the robot for three days (the equivalent of a regional competition) would be a nice asset. Honestly, because of the various issues brought about as a result of eliminating the ship date, I'd rank this as the best possible outcome.

As for the teams that want to attend cross-country Regionals, I have two words: road trip! Well, at least for one mentor. And a navigator. And a back seat driver that criticizes that the GPS is wrong and that they know a "shortcut". And a fourth person, because odd-numbered groups of people never seem right. Multi-day car trips aren't that bad. I've taken more 1000+ road trips than I can count on one hand, and they can be really fun* (as long as you have an EZ Pass).

* And you don't drive through northern New Jersey near NYC; seriously, it stinks (the rest of Jersey is fine).

There are teams which don't have access to a mini-van (I don't think the team I currently mentor has one), or are flying to a regional or championships (from another country). Also, I think you'll have trouble fitting those four people into a van with the robot. I think two might be the limit, plus the extra time it may take a team to drive like that could be more than a two mentors or a mentor/student with a van has to give.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

Chances are that at least one mentor on your team owns such a vehicle and can volunteer to drive the robot to and from events.

I've been on two teams. Not sure if either has a mentor that meets that criteria.

Anyways, I'd say that the other thread pretty well voted down changing the format. From the starting results of this thread, it would seem most are already happy with the direction of FIRST.

I seriously suggest teams that aren't happy with the way FIRST works, to consider other competitions such as BEST or Battlebots or any other robotics competition. In fact, it doesn't have to be robotics. The goal is to inspire and teach kids, this can be done through any one of building challenges. Find something wrong within the community and try to figure out how to fix it. I really don't mean this as a "get out" sentiment. Far from it. I just like everyone to know that there are many opportunities out there for the same thing. I think one of my most educational experiences in high school didn't come from the robotics team(though many did). This one came from prom. They wanted a giant chandelier for cheap and had no engineers on their committee. I worked for them to get it designed and built all in secrecy within the school. I had a direct customer that could constantly change their minds, a tight constraint on labor, and a tight deadline. I felt like a true engineer.

In short: Stay in FIRST, start another program, but mainly find your own way towards inspiration and education. It will do you far better then trying to play politics or file complaints.

PS: Sorry for not following your suggested pattern, I hope you still find my post worth reading. It should at least make you think.