Power Management Recommendation for driver stations

[DtD]

We just made sure our classmate was always plugged in between matches, and plugged in over night. (Don't just power it off over night, the classmate phantom will suck down the battery anyway - no I'm not putting it in sleep mode.)

~David

[Mike Hendricks]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Ed,
The venue should be able to dig a few power drops out of their house box in a minute or two. All it requires is a threeway extension cord at each player station.

It really shouldn't even take that long considering there already is AC power at the drivers station for the SCCF cases, as well as additional power drops for the fixed cameras on the corners of the field. I was surprised that FIRST didn't provide the ability to plug the Classmate into power on the field. It will be interesting to see how these PCs hold up in Atlanta, and if any delays are caused by teams are waiting for the laptops to wake up or if they fail from the long walks or waits in the queue.

While we didn't have any issues last weekend in San Diego with ours, there was a few rounds where our battery was dangerously low. Plugging it in when the bot was in the pit helped, but there really should be something on the field to plug them into. It's very likely that the veteran teams will need to reuse PC next year, and who knows what shape the batteries will be in by then. Maybe someone will donate batteries for the KoP

[IceStorm]

Just out of curiosity how long were the inverters staying running on one of the robot batteries? I had thought of doing this at some point on Friday but wasn't sure how long of runtime you would get before you would need to recharge the batteries.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by ebarker

Roger that, I copy your comments well !!

However I posed the question to someone in the know at the event and the answer was negative.

Who controls the field facilities ? The GDC ? FIRST engineering ?

The question needs to be asked because without consistent guidance from HQ there is going to be some confusion.

Our cart now has AC power on it so our alliance members can stay plugged in and charging during queueing. And we have a handheld AC kit for the opposing alliance so they can go ditto !!

When the teams move forward they can pull the plug and place their equipment onto the driver stations. All that doesn't interfere with any understanding that FIRST has at this moment.

Should I post this to GDC Q&A ?

Ed,
It is my understanding that each event is slightly different. Most often the local regional committee is the one paying for the venue and services it provides. I have never had a problem asking for additional power in the Inspection area. I am concerned about power cords running between robot carts while in the queue for obvious reasons. If someone had thought of this before, there should be power at the driver's station for all robot control. The old IFI controllers were powered by the field when you plugged in.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Ed,
I have never had a problem asking for additional power in the Inspection area. The old IFI controllers were powered by the field when you plugged in.

Al,

If they are using the same field then I'd expect the power is still there ? I think it used to have about 4 outlet boxes built in for the IFI controllers.

I'll push the issue to the GDC so they can comment. Then students going to the next event can carry that doc with them and then they can meet with the event organizers on site. I'm concerned that the venue will resist this unless there is GDC guidance.

I'd imagine if the head inspector want more power well then "Captain we got to have more power !!" ( in my best Scottish accent ). I can see why you would not have a problem getting power.

Originally Posted by IceStorm

Just out of curiosity how long were the inverters staying running on one of the robot batteries?

We have run video equipment that uses more power than the classmate and we have run all day long, EASY !

We also use this setup to run public demonstrations outdoors and corporate / legistaive events indoors. All day long EASY !

Put the battery on the charger overnight. Check the battery midday while inverting just to make yourself comfortable.

[Alex Dinsmoor]

Originally Posted by IceStorm

Just out of curiosity how long were the inverters staying running on one of the robot batteries? I had thought of doing this at some point on Friday but wasn't sure how long of runtime you would get before you would need to recharge the batteries.

My team actually uses this method to power our control system when we do parades. It allows us to drive the robot while moving!

The batteries last a whole day powering a control system, with heavy use. You should have no problem with one or two batteries charging your classmate throughout the day.

Although this year at Kettering we were shut down by a safety captain when we were using a robot battery to power something besides the robot... You should probably get a clarification from FIRST that this is a "safe" activity before using the battery solution.

[Chris Fultz]

I asked about player station power at KC.

The power that is normally run to the player control area is now ued to power the ball return timers (in the goals and in the return rack).

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by Alex Dinsmoor

Although this year at Kettering we were shut down by a safety captain when we were using a robot battery to power something besides the robot... You should probably get a clarification from FIRST that this is a "safe" activity before using the battery solution.

Ask the 'safety captain' to cite the hazard !

If you have a UL approved inverter using the same Anderson connectors in the KOP using properly insulated wire ?!?! then they need to cite the hazard. Ask for the lead safety person.

[eugenebrooks]

Using an inverter has its hazards, but it would be entirely
reasonable to have a dc to dc converter powered by a robot
battery, or any other battery, to keep the classmate topped
off between matches. It is a simple matter to match the voltage
and connector used to charge the classmate.

Eugene

[PAR_WIG1350]

Originally Posted by eugenebrooks

Using an inverter has its hazards, but it would be entirely
reasonable to have a dc to dc converter powered by a robot
battery, or any other battery, to keep the classmate topped
off between matches. It is a simple matter to match the voltage
and connector used to charge the classmate.

Eugene

Proprietary connectors and unique, non-standard, voltages make this hard. even once you get the voltage AND CURRENT to the proper value, the connector might need to be spliced in a manner that could be deemed unsafe, plus prone to failure. But, I am no expert on classmate power supply cables and connectors. If this wasn't first, I would suggest soldering a car dc connector (lighter) onto the battery to plug the inverter into, but, this is FIRST, so we can't do that. I hate proprietary connectors!

[eugenebrooks]

If you look at the connector, voltage and current limit, you
are likely to find an existing dc-dc converter for a laptop that
fits the bill without using an AC inverter.

Eugene

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350

If this wasn't first, I would suggest soldering a car dc connector (lighter) onto the battery to plug the inverter into, but, this is FIRST, so we can't do that. I hate proprietary connectors!

wrong wrong...

a) use a standard robot battery with standard Anderson connector

b) use a COTS DC-AC inverter. Sometimes the inverter comes with pigtails in the kit. One is simply plain wire. Fit inverter with a standard Anderson connector.

Then you can pull any battery out of your battery pool to run the inverter for demos, presentations, competition, etc.

The solution Eugene talked about is more elegant and suited to a dedicated application. This solution give you power on the go for classmates, hubs, routers, laptops, and is more general purpose.

I have this inverter - it has pigtails the are interchangeable. I got it at a truck stop

I have this one too - you put it in your cup holder in your truck or car.

It doesn't give you enough power to run a cotton candy or squishee machine.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by ebarker

a) use a standard robot battery with standard Anderson connector

b) use a COTS DC-AC inverter. Sometimes the inverter comes with pigtails in the kit. One is simply plain wire. Fit inverter with a standard Anderson connector.

Or make a simple Anderson SS50-to-cigarette lighter adapter so you can use the inverter without modification.

Then you can pull any battery out of your battery pool to run the inverter for demos, presentations, competition, etc.

With the cigarette lighter adapter, you get even more options. We have a small handheld 12v vacuum cleaner that's been used on occasion with a robot battery. We also used an automotive FM transmitter to put the audio through the shop speaker system when we watched a DVD.

[Andrew Y.]

battery would not be as big of a problem of 832 and 2415 stopped being on the field at the same time. Together we caused the FMS to shut down about 3 times...and thats when peoples batteries suffered

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

With the cigarette lighter adapter, you get even more options. We have a small handheld 12v vacuum cleaner that's been used on occasion with a robot battery. We also used an automotive FM transmitter to put the audio through the shop speaker system when we watched a DVD.

We've used ours to power a car compressor to blow up balls over the years.