No Lifter = No Playoffs

[coldfusion1279]

After seeing the game live, I retract my original comment. For most teams, scoring is rare. 2 points will decide most matches in the qualifier matches, assuming there aren't a bazillion penalties (and yes there are matches with dozens of penalties).

While not being able to hang doesn't mean you miss the playoffs...

It's 20 seconds to score two points. The only reason not to have a hanger is if you score 2 balls in 20 seconds, which is 12 balls in the tele-op all together. AND this assumes you aren't being hassled by defenders. No team scores 12 balls by themselves in tele-op. The teams that can do this, draw defense. This doesn't really make sense due to the nature of the rankings, but its true.

In summary, hanging was completely under estimated by many teams, including our own.

Down the stretch I expect match scores will get higher. But for now, hanging seems to be a great attribute if you can do it in the finale.

[Jeff Waegelin]

Originally Posted by Ken Streeter

As a case in point, the Granite State Regional was won this year by an alliance with three excellent ball-handling robots (1073, 1519, 1058), of which none could hang. In order to win the tournament, they defeated an alliance with two hanging robots in the semifinals (outscoring the opposition despite their two successful hangers) and the #1 seeded alliance in the finals (who had an awesome hanging robot that successfully hung in every match.) In short, if a robot can score more points through ball-handling (despite defense encountered in elims) than they can via hanging, the ball-handling robot will be a better pick. However, just because a "better pick" is out there doesn't ensure that alliance captains will make the right pick

Ken's comments are very right. I was part of that semifinal alliance that got defeated by the champion alliance, and I was very surprised by the results. We thought defense and hanging would be critical in the elimination rounds, and made our second-round pick with that in mind. The #2 alliance rounded out their picks with a team we rated very highly, but didn't fit our perceived needs. Boy, were we surprised by the firepower they were able to bring out on us! I think what this proved, in my mind, is that hanging will be a great boost for teams to have, but in terms of scoring potential for the alliance, ball control and shooting is far more important. Put it this way: a robot that's a great shooter and can hang will be an invaluable member of an alliance, but from now on, I'll take a good shooter that can't hang over a mediocre shooter that can.

[delsaner]

Originally Posted by robodude03

I found that the 0-0 matches were because of high defense and obviously hanging in these situations would turn the match around for the given alliance. However, at the same time could it not be said that if a team had successfully made shots during autonomous the match would tip in their favor? After watching the matches in San Diego, I have to say that having an autonomous mode that at least gets the balls in the alliances near zone (or scores) gives them a significant advantage in a match.

I saw a lot of matches that were 0-0 because of penalties. Don't get me wrong, a good defense can certainly prevent ball from going in, thus causing no points in the game, but penalties certainly caused a lot of 0-0 matches.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by delsaner

I saw a lot of matches that were 0-0 because of penalties. Don't get me wrong, a good defense can certainly prevent ball from going in, thus causing no points in the game, but penalties certainly caused a lot of 0-0 matches.

I've seen matches that had WAY more penalties than points scored.
It's very much easier to incur penalties this year than to score and thus 0-0 scores will be pretty common unfortunately.

[Wayne TenBrink]

We were grateful to finish as "1 seed at TC, so we had our pick of the field. We don't hang. Our first round choice (2645 Power Surge) was a reliable hanger. However, it wasn't their only strength. There were 3 on our short list for the first round. All three were agile, could move the ball over the bump, score, and worked well with us. I can't say if hanging was the single bonus that swayed our decision, but it certainly helped. Their hanging during eliminations made the difference in one or more matches. In the 2nd round, we went for defensive agility over the ability to hang.

We didn't rule out non-hangers or limit our choices to them. Hanging ability is most valuable when it is combined with a needed skill during the other minute and 40 seconds of the match.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I've seen matches that had WAY more penalties than points scored.
It's very much easier to incur penalties this year than to score and thus 0-0 scores will be pretty common unfortunately.

Quoted for truth.

Teams/alliances that can limit their penalties will have great success compared to the average team/alliance.

[nskerven]

Originally Posted by coldfusion1279

Our team decided to axe the lift idea also.

Many of the videos I have seen indicate that several teams will need more than 20 seconds to drive over to the tower, attach themselves, and lift above the platform (not to mention we must consider the robots getting in eachother's way...)

Take a look at CORE 2062's video. http://vimeo.com/9510415