Vision Target Backing

[wilmo]

As i was flipping through the pictures on CD, I noticed that the backdrop of the vision target at Oregon, Finger Lakes, Kettering, and San Diego were clear, while at Kansas City, the backdrop was opaque.

Oregon can be seen here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35069
Finger Lakes can be seen here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35073
San Diego can be seen here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35086
Kettering can be seen here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/35108?

KC can be seen here:
http://shawnspence.com/contactsheets...0KC%200062.jpg
http://shawnspence.com/contactsheets...0KC%200053.jpg
http://shawnspence.com/contactsheets...0KC%200140.jpg
http://shawnspence.com/contactsheets...0KC%200587.jpg
http://shawnspence.com/contactsheets...0KC%200540.jpg

Did any other Regionals have this opaque backing on their vision targets? Will this affect vision tracking software at all?

Thanks,
Adam Wilmes
Team 868 TechHOUNDS

[coldfusion1279]

NJ was clear also. Interesting observation.

I thought the cameras just tracked the arc of the circle though, not the specific color?

[wilmo]

Originally Posted by coldfusion1279

NJ was clear also. Interesting observation.

I thought the cameras just tracked the arc of the circle though, not the specific color?

I wasn't sure if the white of the background was close enough to the white of the circle, thus removing an edge.

[sparrowkc]

I was suprised to see this at KC. I checked section 6 of the rules and the target is supposed to be clear.

A VISION TARGET is mounted to the transparent portion of each ALLIANCE WALL, centered
above each GOAL opening.

I can't think of a reason that this would mess up any vision code-- The default code looks for high contrast circles, and that would work better with a solid white background. The problem I see with this is that it prevents the HPs from watching the game.

I'm interested to hear an explanation for this, I'm sure there is one.

[Sovietmagician]

I was under the impression there was to be a clear backing but, as long as the opaque background does not blur the edges of the target then i think it should be fine, So if the opaque backing was Red I think it might actually make the vision target more visible and easier to detect an arc in.

[wilmo]

I talked to some of our team members, and supposidbly our photographer talked to the productions company to ask about the lighting because it was so dim in the arena. Could the backing be a "back-up" target if the field lighting is very dark?

[Jimmy Cao]

The vision targets were shipped as lexan sheets with the usual cover over it (the one that generates a ton of static electricity when you pull it off). I know that they were pulled off at Traverse City, and it seems that was the case at *most* regional. However, it appears some opted to not remove the protective film.

I do think the initial intent of the film was just for protective reasons during transport, and therefore was intended to be removed at the events, but I suppose someone out there disagrees with that and didn't do so. =P

[wilmo]

Originally Posted by Lostmage333

The vision targets were shipped as lexan sheets with the usual cover over it (the one that generates a ton of static electricity when you pull it off). I know that they were pulled off at Traverse City, and it seems that was the case at *most* regional. However, it appears some opted to not remove the protective film.

I do think the initial intent of the film was just for protective reasons during transport, and therefore was intended to be removed at the events, but I suppose someone out there disagrees with that and didn't do so. =P

That may explain it! We had thought about that but I felt it at the regional and it had almost a glossy paint feel to it. Maybe it was just a thicker plastic covering that we were used to.

[Ivan Helmrich]

I was on the crew that set up the GKC field. As far as I can tell, it was indeed the regular protective sheet that comes on polycarbonate. I asked about its removal but was told to leave it on by one of the crew leaders. I remember commenting that it was unlikely to last for more than a regional or two. It may well have been a case of the extensive field setup instructions not calling for it to be removed, so on it stayed. I haven't read much about vision system problems so chances are it made little or no difference other than to the human players.

Ivan

[wilmo]

Sorry for the bump, but I noticed that the same backing that was on at GKC was also present at the Wisconson Regional. Is there a way to communicate will field set up crews to take this backing off?

[Ray Gitchell]

Team 525 used vision very successfully in KC with the backing on. Apparently the backing was off in MN 10K Lakes and we spent half the evening on Thursday with the robot on a cart trying to work with the backing removed in a relatively dark background of Williams arena.

We concluded after many "tweekings" of the camera settings that we could not detect the target reliably with the target backing removed, as the arena had lighted advertizements on the walls that would intersect the outer ring or inner ring of the targe and fail to detect the circle-within-a-circle.

We did not try jumping around behind the target, but the human player behind the clear portions of the target, may also cause an issue.

I recommend you have a backup plan for autonomus in the Championships if you find the backing is removed and there are any large white lighted signs or windows behind it. One year we had problems in Georgia Dome with the high-intensity advertizements along the lower edge of the upper balcony seating.
I think they turned them off during the Eienstein rounds.

Good luck to all in the Championships in Atlanta. I love the game this year!