Team 217 - Thunderchickens

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by Don Wright

It's sad that all the hype around that other team is taking credit away from the team that really deserves it...217...

We should be focusing on beating them...let's forget about that 4 six whatever team...

Seriously though, 217 is the real deal...from the students, to the mentors, to the teachers, parents, etc... And they have a pretty good robot .

If there was a model for a FIRST team, this is it. I have the highest respect for all of those darn chickens (and wranglers) and look forward to spending many days at Ai together...and beyond!

Oh...and sorry the bird pooped on your robot...

Don, I thought we agreed that you guys would were the bulls eye from now on. Stop trying to give it back.

Seriously though I do not believe that "credit" is being misplaced 469 deserve all the credit that they have received and then some. Finding an effective strategy and executing it is something that team 469 has always been great at, this year is no exception. All of this debate about 469 and 217 has buried a team that I believe will be seen on Einstein in years to come, 2960. Remember that without a third robot like 2960, scoring effectively against an equally offensive alliance would be difficult if not impossible.

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by Mike Copioli

All of this debate about 469 and 217 has buried a team that I believe will be seen on Einstein in years to come, 2960. Remember that without a third robot like 2960, scoring effectively against an equally offensive alliance would be difficult if not impossible.

This is big. A lot of us see 217 and 469 and we stop right there thinking you've already won Einstein. And while that can have it's truth to it, an alliance is not two teams. If people think that an alliance of 217 and 469 could do everything with just them, they are kidding themselves. An alliance is three robots, not just two, and finding the key robot after 21 other robots have become unavailable is not any easy task.

Not everyone gives enough credit to the third robot in an alliance of two powerhouse teams, but it usually is the robot that makes or breaks an alliance.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

This is big. A lot of us see 217 and 469 and we stop right there thinking you've already won Einstein. And while that can have it's truth to it, an alliance is not two teams. If people think that an alliance of 217 and 469 could do everything with just them, they are kidding themselves. An alliance is three robots, not just two, and finding the key robot after 21 other robots have become unavailable is not any easy task.

Not everyone gives enough credit to the third robot in an alliance of two powerhouse teams, but it usually is the robot that makes or breaks an alliance.

Indeed, you guys (174) were every bit as instrumental to the FLR win as the 217 and us. There is a reason you were very high up on our 'to pick after ThunderChickens" list!

[Mike Copioli]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

Indeed, you guys (174) were every bit as instrumental to the FLR win as the 217 and us. There is a reason you were very high up on our 'to pick after ThunderChickens" list!

Our list as well.

[JesseK]

I agree that 217's bot is well engineered, yet I haven't seen every other robot this year so I'll withhold my top picks until the end. Rumor has it that 330 and 25 are just as formidable as 217 but much less publicized.

[robself705]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

This is big. A lot of us see 217 and 469 and we stop right there thinking you've already won Einstein. And while that can have it's truth to it, an alliance is not two teams. If people think that an alliance of 217 and 469 could do everything with just them, they are kidding themselves. An alliance is three robots, not just two, and finding the key robot after 21 other robots have become unavailable is not any easy task.

Not everyone gives enough credit to the third robot in an alliance of two powerhouse teams, but it usually is the robot that makes or breaks an alliance.

Very well put.

[bobrenjc93]

469 and 217 won 20-3 in the final match with 217 and 469 scoring at least 15 of the goals. The third team was basically a spectator. So I have to disagree with your theory.

[nikeairmancurry]

Originally Posted by bobrenjc93

469 and 217 won 20-3 in the final match with 217 and 469 scoring at least 15 of the goals. The third team was basically a spectator. So I have to disagree with your theory.

There job wasn't to score all-out... Defense on the on blue robot is what enabled the alliance to put up those high scores. You over look there ablilty to do mutiply things, while good scouting teams see them as a duel threat of scoring and defense. The excuted thier strategy perfectly and thats why we saw those high scores. You do your job, you will be rewarded.

[PaW]

Originally Posted by nikeairmancurry

There job wasn't to score all-out... Defense on the on blue robot is what enabled the alliance to put up those high scores. You over look there ablilty to do mutiply things, while good scouting teams see them as a duel threat of scoring and defense. The excuted thier strategy perfectly and thats why we saw those high scores. You do your job, you will be rewarded.

Indeed. Team 2960 did an excellent job playing defense on the opposing team's lone defensive-zone robot, preventing that robot from trying to block the 'automatic roll backs', or from trying to clear out the stray balls. Definitely not a spectator.

Three teams make the alliance successful.

[Chris Hibner]

Originally Posted by PaW

Indeed. Team 2960 did an excellent job playing defense on the opposing team's lone defensive-zone robot, preventing that robot from trying to block the 'automatic roll backs', or from trying to clear out the stray balls. Definitely not a spectator.

2960 has some very multi-talented team members. I LOVE the Wings of Fire logo (look in the top left of this page). It was designed by a member of 2960! We saw their logo last year and absolutely loved it, so when we needed a new logo for our newly combined team, we enlisted the help of 2960. We'll be forever thankful.

[babycakes]

This team is way overated. It easy to make a good robot when ALL your parts are machined in Texas and shipped back and pop riveted together. The students learn alot about problem solving there. And they expect all the awards they get and arent even excited about winning a district. The driver on the team when asked if he was excited at the cass tech district said " not really, i know we are going to win it". This team really deserves everything they get huh?

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by babycakes

This team is way overated. It easy to make a good robot when ALL your parts are machined in Texas and shipped back and pop riveted together. The students learn alot about problem solving there.

The rest of your post is pretty straightforward and insulting to everyone on 217, so I'll save my negative words on that for the reputation bar, but I actually have a question / point to make about the above part.

Has anyone learned anything about problem solving from operating the machines that make parts? I learn a lot more about problem solving by designing a robot than by fabricating parts! Fabrication isn't engineering, design is, and engineering is essentially problem solving. So if students are solving the really tough problems, who cares that a sheet metal facility bent some parts for them?

[Vikesrock]

I don't care if the parts are machined in Texas or Antarctica, what the heck does that matter? Many teams send some or all of their parts out to sponsors to be machined. There are many ways to go about this competition and nowhere in the rules does it say you must machine your own parts.

The designs still have to come from somewhere. The prototyping, design, and iteration steps are where problem solving skills are developed. Learning how to machine things is definitely a great skill to have, but learning how to appropriately apply the design process is an asset transferable to many different types of projects.

[babycakes]

Its completely the opposite of what FIRST is about.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by babycakes

Its completely the opposite of what FIRST is about.

I will challenge you to find anything in the rules or the speeches of Dean or Woodie that suggest that FIRST is about learning to use a drill or a mill or a press or a break.

FIRST is about inspiring students, and if we can tech them some things along the way that's a fantastic bonus.

Team 217 has developed a build season process that allows them to maximize the time they spend on prototyping, design, and iteration by minimizing fabrication time. They do this by using construction techniques that best align with the capabilities of their sponsors. I hardly see how any of this goes against what FIRST is about. Their team has optimized their process to spend the maximum amount of time working on solving the problems presented by the game.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're jealous. I know I am. Team 217 (and the rest of Team IFI, who use similar methods) are teams that I strive to emulate. What makes them even better is they aren't trying to stop you from emulating them, in fact they are actively encouraging it by doing their best to share their design process with the rest of the FRC community.

I always say the same thing to people that say that students don't do design work on team so-and-so, go talk to them. Walk into the team's pit and ask the students about the machine, you may be surprised by how much they're able to tell you.