disaster in israel regional

[Tottanka]

Michael,
About the award, i apologized and like i said it is fully deserved. I didn't know the requirements.
FIRST cant take responsibility of every team's actions, and blaming FIRST isn't even logical in the case of the events you mentioned.
The system can't keep an eye on each and every psycho out there willing to bring in firecrackes, be logical. If you knoww hat team did it, go ahead and tell that to FIRST and i'm sure they will take care of it and that this team will not be back. If you don't know who did it, don't expect FIRST to know, it's no FBI.]

There is nothing unhonest about offering a team to join you, it is your full right as a top seeded team. I don't think you can judge those teams and go as far as saying that this is a stain on FIRST Israel. It is their team's desicion and it is just as clean and fair as any other decision out there.

About team 3076. Did you talk to them yourself about the stickers, and did they still do that? If yes, did you complain to FIRST?

[brianelite]

FIRST is hosting the event and is responsible for security. That is why robots are inspected for safety by FIRST.

These are incredibly serious issues. These issues would be an outrage at any public event - and FIRST has WAYYY higher standards then other public events.

-Explosive thrown in teams pit
-Brawl with security and teams
-Fight between teams
-Theft
-Vandalism
-Racial slurs
-Intentional Disruption of matches
-Coaches/Mentors encouraging some/all of these activities

If safety cannot be guaranteed there cannot be an event. FIRST will either have to cancel the event or employ security forces if the event will continue next year... Imagine that.. FIRST increasing security.

[MikePres]

Originally Posted by Tottanka

Michael,
FIRST cant take responsibility of every team's actions, and blaming FIRST isn't even logical in the case of the events you mentioned.
The system can't keep an eye on each and every psycho out there willing to bring in firecrackes, be logical. If you knoww hat team did it, go ahead and tell that to FIRST and i'm sure they will take care of it and that this team will not be back. If you don't know who did it, don't expect FIRST to know, it's no FBI.]

There is nothing unhonest about offering a team to join you, it is your full right as a top seeded team. I don't think you can judge those teams and go as far as saying that this is a stain on FIRST Israel. It is their team's desicion and it is just as clean and fair as any other decision out there.

About team 3076. Did you talk to them yourself about the stickers, and did they still do that? If yes, did you complain to FIRST?

I don't expect them to be FBI, just FIRST. with all respect, this issues shouldn't have happened and i hope it was the last time. I encourage the FIRST Israel staff to make all the right conclusions for next year so that we won't find ourselves in a similar thread next year.

I know, i didn't say it isn't legal or isn't fair, it's okay, but we prefer not to do stuff in that way. Maybe next year we'll understand that in the end it's just a game...

We asked them no to do it and they did. we didn't complain to FIRST but i did washed one of their representatives verbally (explaining why we won't take them to our alliance, not cursing or something). i know that not all 3076 teammates are like that and i hope that it was enough to change something there for the next season.

Originally Posted by brianelite

FIRST is hosting the event and is responsible for security. That is why robots are inspected for safety by FIRST.

These are incredibly serious issues. These issues would be an outrage at any public event - and FIRST has WAYYY higher standards then other public events.

-Explosive thrown in teams pit
-Brawl with security and teams
-Fight between teams
-Theft
-Vandalism
-Racial slurs
-Intentional Disruption of matches
-Coaches/Mentors encouraging some/all of these activities

If safety cannot be guaranteed there cannot be an event. FIRST will either have to cancel the event or employ security forces if the event will continue next year... Imagine that.. FIRST increasing security.

there is no doubt that we had a lot of problems this year but still this is a great regional to participate in. the majority of teams in israel are really good people with great mind and big hearts. a lot of teams help each other (we helped and were helped this year ) and there's no real reason to eliminate this Regional. yes, we had some problems, but all regionals have some. I'm sure FIRST Israel already started preparations for a better next season. don't forget about all the logistics involved here that complicate things... I hope all the problems are going to be discussed with US FIRST too and proper solutions will be picked.
I think that all teams should go through a united seminar to remind what is exactly GP and that Award are for achievements and not the opposite. every team should also make greater efforts to explain those to its community. I said my team in the beginning of this year: "We're not gonna do charity for Chairman's, we'll enter Chairman's only if we'll do charity and community work, and it depends on people" and that's why we didn't enter Chairman's this year. I wanted my team to be rewarded for something they do, not because they do it for the award. Maybe if our crowds understood better what is GP and FIRST all about - maybe all that happed will not happen again. It's a process, it's a birth, and we have our own growing pain.

i believe that if our community will work together, everything's gonna be all right in the end

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by MikePres

I think that all teams should go through a united seminar to remind what is exactly GP and that Award are for achievements and not the opposite. every team should also make greater efforts to explain those to its community. I said my team in the beginning of this year: "We're not gonna do charity for Chairman's, we'll enter Chairman's only if we'll do charity and community work, and it depends on people" and that's why we didn't enter Chairman's this year. I wanted my team to be rewarded for something they do, not because they do it for the award. Maybe if our crowds understood better what is GP and FIRST all about - maybe all that happed will not happen again. It's a process, it's a birth, and we have our own growing pain.

i believe that if our community will work together, everything's gonna be all right in the end

There is a lot of wisdom in this. The more the community understands what the teams are doing and working towards, the more the community can support their efforts in positive and helpful ways. The more the teams work together to help the community develop a deeper understanding, the more opportunities will arise.

Great ideas, Mike. I also agree with and understand your statement about the process, the birth, and the growing pains.
--
Let's not bash, criticize, and pile on - especially if we were not at the regional. It does not help the situation in any way.

Jane

[yarden.saa]

for the people who don't know, 2 days before the competition there was a pre season competition in Benyamina. the robots worked perfectly well. my team was the only rookie team in the pre season and it was a big honor for us. no one said it before on this thread but the first spirit in the competition was on it's best. teams were helping each other. for example when one of the volunteers said in the microphone that the turkish team was needed to some pneumatic items I was runnimg to the with the things they need to. when my team was needing something all the teams were hadful to help us.

FIRST Spirit was on it's best!

the field communication problems embarrassing and the reason to this problem was that the orginizers did not arrange the competition as it was needing to. my mum is an VP in Congress Operations company and she said the orginizers did not bring the right people to solve the problem and they were just testing the system in the days of the competition (even a week before the competitin is not enough). there was not any one from USFIRST who know the field systems. by the experience of the last year when FIRST were using the army frequency they could ask to get confirmation to use 5GH if I have know this problem earlier I would have use my connections to the army toget this confirmation. if my team was not the the winner of the rookie all star award. I promise you the only reason why my team would come apart is the frustration of the communication problems.


see the post of team 3316 on this thread who were in our alliance at the qr final.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by yarden.saa

for the people who don't know, 2 days before the competition there was a pre season competition in Benyamina. the robots worked perfectly well.

With real robots, or practice robots? And what field management system was running (the full competition FMS, or FMS Lite)?

Also, if that scrimmage was with real robots, and this was a sanctioned occurrence, FIRST should have stated publicly (perhaps in an update) that it was giving teams attending this regional a waiver from some of the fabrication schedule and shipping requirements.

If it wasn't sanctioned by FIRST, who let the robots out? (Access to robots outside of the approved periods is serious business.)

[Leav]

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

With real robots, or practice robots? And what field management system was running (the full competition FMS, or FMS Lite)?

Also, if that scrimmage was with real robots, and this was a sanctioned occurrence, FIRST should have stated publicly (perhaps in an update) that it was giving teams attending this regional a waiver from some of the fabrication schedule and shipping requirements.

If it wasn't sanctioned by FIRST, who let the robots out? (Access to robots outside of the approved periods is serious business.)

Obviously this was with practice robots, with parts from the 65 pound withholding allowence (and held in a high-school gym)

despite yarden's comments I'd like to say that communication problems were present in the pre-season event because we were not running any FMS at all, but rather just enabling robots for ~10 min matches.

each DS had it's own router and wifi network, which caused alot of interference. we tried changing the channels, but this was both time consuming to do, and not a perfect solution since wifi channels overlap.

Hindsight being 20/20, It's obvious that the best solution would have been to get 6 demo robots and test the field system beforehand. I'm not sure this would have been obvious to anyone before the fiasco started.

-Leav

[yarden.saa]

Originally Posted by Leav

It's obvious that the best solution would have been to get 6 demo robots and test the field system beforehand. I'm not sure this would have been obvious to anyone before the fiasco started.

-Leav

Now it should be obvious to the next year.
Regretfully I have to say it that NOKIA ARENA-the best arena in Israel is not the best arena to FIRST competition although TEL AVIV municipality give it to FIRST for free to 3 days, we can't let the competition to be there, because is there is a delay the orginizers can't take more day to the competition.

[Tottanka]

Originally Posted by yarden.saa

Now it should be obvious to the next year.
Regretfully I have to say it that NOKIA ARENA-the best arena in Israel is not the best arena to FIRST competition although TEL AVIV municipality give it to FIRST for free to 3 days, we can't let the competition to be there, because is there is a delay the orginizers can't take more day to the competition.

Do you have any better FREE suggestions?

[Mori1578]

I'm sure there is a school who won't have a problem to give its gym or something like that for 5 days (3 for the competition+one for building everything+one for taking away everything).
I must say that i rather have an organized, without any time pressure, regional in a gym than a regional like this in the biggest arena in israel :S

[Tottanka]

Originally Posted by Mori1578

I'm sure there is a school who won't have a problem to give its gym or something like that for 5 days (3 for the competition+one for building everything+one for taking away everything).
I must say that i rather have an organized, without any time pressure, regional in a gym than a regional like this in the biggest arena in israel :S

If you know any school who has a gym with 3000 sits, and place for a pit, let me know.

[yarden.saa]

my school has place to 1000 people and place for the pits,
maybe thats the solution because I think next year or in the year after it we will need more one regional in israel then, every regional will have 40 teams and that is more sensetive to do in my school

[Yoel2630]

[quote=yarden.saa;939900]my school has place to 1000 people and place for the pits,
maybe thats the solution because I think next year or in the year after it we will need more one regional in israel then, every regional will have 40 teams and that is more sensetive to do in my school[/Q

NOKIA is perfect for FIRST.
It's kind of a centered location for all teams, easy to get to for all, It's big and easy to set and take apart.
The only relevant solution is to be well prepared for the competition both from FIRST Israel's side and the teams side.
If Things go according to schedule there is plenty of time in the 3 days.
I don't know if you noticed, but games didn't go on as schedule and not always because comm problems. The first day was extended for teams who didn't pass inspections, out of FIRST's good will to see all teams play.
Many teams didn't get to the field on time, and once again they where waited for.
From my understanding, some of the problems in the comm came as a result of invalid code, If only teams were well prepared (not blaming teams, I just think next year we can pay more attention, I think we also had some kind of problem) code wise. We could of saved a lot of time trying to solve all the comm problems.

And don't look for a crooked floor where it doesn't exist.
FIRST Israel is to blame for the poor competition, very few teams for unsportsmanlike behavior. And many teams should be thanked for holding their head's up as high as it gets during such a hard experience.
Most team's were looking for any opportunity to help and show what they are worth.

I want people from outside to understand how stressful the situation was for teams. Every team worked really hard on their robot's for 6 official weeks and a few more until the competition.
This year was a hard year, really tough challenge, weird ranking system. And then when we get to the arena it's not according to sketches (legal tolerance, but annoying when they get the diameter of a pipe wrong =\).Communication doesn't work. Finishing the second day with a horrible feeling, when some teams have gotten on the field every single game but not played one due to comm problems. And at the final day where they finally do something fair and give everybody 3 games but they get it wrong and stay with the odd ranking system, which does not make much sense(especially with such little amounts of game). And finally the finals which you know all about.

[ophir]

Originally Posted by yarden.saa

my school has place to 1000 people and place for the pits,
maybe thats the solution because I think next year or in the year after it we will need more one regional in israel then, every regional will have 40 teams and that is more sensetive to do in my school

I guess that all the teams will register to both regionals.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by yarden.saa

Now it should be obvious to the next year.
Regretfully I have to say it that NOKIA ARENA-the best arena in Israel is not the best arena to FIRST competition although TEL AVIV municipality give it to FIRST for free to 3 days, we can't let the competition to be there, because is there is a delay the orginizers can't take more day to the competition.

Almost any US regional would have the same issue. There would be MASSIVE issues with deciding to extend a regional an additional day at the event, the way to solve this is to prevent the delay by thorough testing, not to plan for the delay to happen.