Go to Post 5:20 - Lots of discussion about how FIRST pretty much wipes out the world of at least one object every year. - Andy Grady [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Regional Competitions
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #106   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-03-2010, 15:25
brianelite brianelite is offline
Registered User
FRC #2898
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: oregon
Posts: 36
brianelite has a spectacular aura aboutbrianelite has a spectacular aura aboutbrianelite has a spectacular aura about
Re: disaster in israel regional

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line View Post
It is very unfortunate that you continue to bash FIRST volunteers, sponsors, beta testers and others who worked very hard to give a decent control system.

Instead of turning all that energy you seem to have into a postive force to help improve FIRST, you still insist on negativity and rude criticism.

The people working on that system are professionals, and excellent programmers. Indeed, you had many absolute TOP notch engineers working on the system. In fact, I think you'll find that hundreds of teams are utilizing C++ without the issues you seem to think are so earth-shattering.

Part of being in FIRST is find and dealing with issues in a professional way: maintaining a positive attitude and finding ways to solve the issue. I suggest you work on that method. It will certainly bear more fruit that your current course of routinely bashing FIRST and the people who work hard to try and make it a success.

I apologize for the highjack, but I couldn't in good conscience let brianelite's post go unanswered. This is the second time he's gone down the road of denegration and put-downs.
I am floored by your continued arrogance/ignorance.

It is obvious that you do not use C++. Why do you think so many C++ updates came out? Because the previous updates broke things/didn't work.

Look here: http://first.wpi.edu/FRC/frccupdates.html

Every single one of the mid-season upgrades is a bug fix. Every team had these issues; it's all WPI's fault for making bad libraries.
__________________
  #107   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-03-2010, 15:51
GaryVoshol's Avatar
GaryVoshol GaryVoshol is offline
Cogito ergo arbitro
no team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 5,757
GaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond repute
Re: disaster in israel regional

Closing thread to let things calm down. I'll open it again on Monday.
__________________
(since 2004)
  #108   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-03-2010, 06:47
GaryVoshol's Avatar
GaryVoshol GaryVoshol is offline
Cogito ergo arbitro
no team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 5,757
GaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond repute
Re: disaster in israel regional

OK, I've opened it up again. Let's try to keep things civil, and only provide constructive suggestions.
__________________
(since 2004)
  #109   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-03-2010, 09:33
Isaac501 Isaac501 is offline
Registered User
FRC #0501 (The PowerKnights)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: Thunder Bluff
Posts: 95
Isaac501 is just really niceIsaac501 is just really niceIsaac501 is just really niceIsaac501 is just really nice
Re: disaster in israel regional

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianelite View Post
What do you mean teams couldn't test the cRio/Driver station until kickoff?

The REAL issue here is that FIRST continues to put amateurs in charge of developing the programming environment. Total disaster this year with C++, our code was blowing up for WEEKS into build season before the WPI guys fixed their library... absolutely inexcusable that these guys who cannot even compile their own library are given the task of providing the programming tools for hundreds/thousands of teams using C++... It is simply outrageous that after 2 years deployment FIRST had to scramble to put out a working cRio image/ robotics library in the final week or so...
This is completely un-called-for, completely ungracious, and completely unprofessional, and simply not true. Our team used the Beta on Beta system that WPI created for Java, never mind C++, and had ZERO problems, as did several winning robots at several of the regionals, using vision tracking with the Java.

I also saw winning teams using C++ at the BAE granite state regional and the St Louis regional. Blaming failure on libraries when other people are succeeding ... well, I'll leave it at that.
__________________
Team 501 Academic Advisor, Systems Build Mentor

Last edited by Isaac501 : 22-03-2010 at 09:45.
  #110   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-03-2010, 10:02
TubaMorg TubaMorg is offline
Programmermechanicalelect ricalcoach
AKA: Dan
FRC #1480 (Robatos Locos)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Houston
Posts: 450
TubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: disaster in israel regional

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac501 View Post
This is completely un-called-for, completely ungracious, and completely unprofessional, and simply not true. Our team used the Beta on Beta system that WPI created for Java, never mind C++, and had ZERO problems, as did several winning robots at several of the regionals, using vision tracking with the Java.

I also saw winning teams using C++ at the BAE granite state regional and the St Louis regional. Blaming failure on libraries when other people are succeeding ... well, I'll leave it at that.
Ha, maybe Gary should have left this thread closed.
A few things:
1. I agree that Brianelite's assessment of the WPI libraries is incorrect.
2. I DO NOT agree that he was either ungracious or unprofessional. He may have been wrong, but that doesn't mean he was ungracious or unprofessional. Being upset about a perceived under performing product in this case is understandable. Forgive me for being hypocritical, but calling people names is probably a more egregious example of being ungracious and unprofessional.

3. I think there should be a 3 day moratorium on ChiefDelphi posts from teams that have just attended a regional. It seems that a large chunk of heated posts occur in the aftermath of regionals from teams that for whatever reason feel that they were wronged in some way. Believe me when I say that I know how they feel. I am by my very nature very competitive and find myself still fighting even after the regional is over. It takes a day or two to evaluate the season with clear headed perspective.
__________________
I don't need a signature.

Last edited by TubaMorg : 22-03-2010 at 10:04. Reason: words...words, just words
  #111   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-03-2010, 10:20
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is offline
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19,817
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: disaster in israel regional

I think I'd agree on leaving the thread closed.

Brian, there are two things I think you should know. The first is that the libraries were created and beta tested by volunteers. They don't have to do this. If a lot of people make comments like the ones you've made here, the volunteers might just quit. Then the quality of the competitions will really go down, because there isn't a codebase other than the one out there now.

The second is that maybe instead of criticizing, you should try either constructive criticism or just plain trying to help them. That comes off much better than what you've been doing. ("I noticed these problems and would like to help you work on a fix for them" as opposed to "You guys stink because I don't like your work".)

TubaMorg, I think the ungracious part sticks. "...floored by your continued arrogance/ignorance...it's all WPI's fault for making bad libraries"--and that's only from the last post he made. If that isn't ungracious, I don't know what it is, other than quite possibly bitter and annoyed. Also see the one that was quoted for further inflammatory language.

But ditto on the short moratorium on posts from teams that just attended a regional. I see more posts that raise the blood pressure in the 1, 2, or 3 days during or right after a regional...
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk

  #112   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-03-2010, 10:23
Jon236's Avatar
Jon236 Jon236 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jon Mittelman
FRC #2648 (Infinite Loop)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Windsor, Maine
Posts: 741
Jon236 has a reputation beyond reputeJon236 has a reputation beyond reputeJon236 has a reputation beyond reputeJon236 has a reputation beyond reputeJon236 has a reputation beyond reputeJon236 has a reputation beyond reputeJon236 has a reputation beyond reputeJon236 has a reputation beyond reputeJon236 has a reputation beyond reputeJon236 has a reputation beyond reputeJon236 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: disaster in israel regional

A positive post on YouTube needs to be seen by all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDpfJz3Lgmc
__________________
Jon Mittelman

Senior Judge Advisor New England & Israel 2014-2015
Infinite Loop Mentor 2011-2015
TechnoTicks Mentor 2000-2011
Championship Chairman's Award 2009 Team236 TechnoTicks
Judge 2010-2015 Championships
Senior Judge Advisor New England District Championship 2014-2015
Judge Advisor Tel Aviv Regional 2007-2015
Judge Advisor Pine Tree Regional 2013
Maine Regional Planning Committee
New England District Planning Committee
Lead Inspector Microsoft Tel Aviv Regional 2006-2008
Judge & Lead Inspector GM/Technion Tel Aviv Regional 2006
Judge UTC Hartford Regional 2006
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Israel Regional yarb65 Regional Competitions 10 17-10-2009 13:30
2009 Israel Regional Jon236 Regional Competitions 15 28-04-2009 09:11
Israel regional savage General Forum 2 23-03-2006 06:13
Israel regional savage Regional Competitions 4 10-03-2006 17:00
ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!! Greg Needel Regional Competitions 91 26-02-2005 18:41


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:53.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi