Driver station coding and other

[codedr]

Originally Posted by Thomas Clark

The compiler doesn't support anything besides Windows, and some of us prefer Linux. The IDE I don't care about (I never use IDEs, just makefiles), but FIRST is limiting users' experiences by limiting who can program and on what operating system. IMHO, they should provide a build of the WPI library and compiler for Linux.

The WPI library would be the same if built on linux because the target is still the robot.

Building a cross environment on Linux would require
- build a ppc cross compiler for x86 linux
- integrate and test compiler in eclipse
- test the method for downloading the code to robot
- support all of the above for all the users

versus
- taking the existing wind river environment and deploy

When you consider that supporting the environment on windows is taking
all of the current volunteer time, you can see why adding another platform of
limited utility to a small number of users is not a priority.

If you can convince a small group of robo linux enthusiasts to build the
environment, you could grow support for this endeavor.

[Thomas Clark]

Originally Posted by codedr

Building a cross environment on Linux would require
- build a ppc cross compiler for x86 linux

GCC was ported to Linux almost twenty years ago. It can be easily targeted to vxWorks PPC.

Originally Posted by codedr

- integrate and test compiler in eclipse

Not really. Eclipse already runs on Linux as well.

Originally Posted by codedr

- test the method for downloading the code to robot

FTP on a normal non-VPN connection. (or non-VLAN or whatever)

Originally Posted by codedr

versus
- taking the existing wind river environment and deploy

Which required Windows. As I said, not everyone uses Windows.

Originally Posted by codedr

If you can convince a small group of robo linux enthusiasts to build the
environment, you could grow support for this endeavor.

Good idea. This would be easier, of course, if there were some sort of open specifications on how the virtual terminal monitor thing works. Is it SSH? Telnet? RSH?

In the meantime, I'll try getting GCC and WPIlib to work together on Linux and maybe write a small IDE in PyGTK.

[Robototes2412]

Yes! Pygtk FTW!

I have made some mockups in the past of a tabbed toolbar IDE, would you like me to post them here?

[Thomas Clark]

Originally Posted by Robototes2412

Yes! Pygtk FTW!

I have made some mockups in the past of a tabbed toolbar IDE, would you like me to post them here?

Sure.

Although not my preferred language/toolkit combo, PyGTK would be portable to both Linux, Mac, and almost anything else with Python and GTK.

And now GCC is slowly downloading, configuring, compiling, etc...

[Ken Streeter]

Originally Posted by codedr

The WPI library would be the same if built on linux because the target is still the robot.

This is absolutely true -- the limiting factor is the development environments in use, not the WPI library.

Originally Posted by codedr

Building a cross environment on Linux would require...

If you can convince a small group of robo linux enthusiasts to build the
environment, you could grow support for this endeavor.

With respect to Java development using NetBeans, I believe that after the initial imaging of the cRIO, you would be able to use NetBeans on a Linux machine to write your robot code without any troubles.

With respect to C++ development using Wind River Workbench, I believe that after the initial cRIO imaging, you could use Wind River Workbench for Linux (see http://www.windriver.com/products/pr...PO_WB_0109.pdf ) without any troubles. The only issue here is that you would need your own license for Wind River Workbench, as the one that is provided for FIRST is only for Windows development systems.

I confess to not knowing what options exist for running LabView on Linux hosts.

[Greg McKaskle]

LabVIEW for linux and Mac target local execution. For FRC, they will work for editing VIs, but the RT cross-targetting was dropped several releases back.

A quick comment on makefiles and IDEs -- don't be afraid of either one. Good IDEs are great at organizing workflow and integrating different tools into a somewhat cohesive experience. Bad or mediocre IDEs are a waste of launch time.

Make and other script oriented build environments are still with us, and in fact at least a few of the NI internal VxWorks developers choose to work from command line and text editor. If you poke around a bit, I suspect you can do FRC without the IDE.

Internally, LV development has been multi-platform for over twenty years. One of the cool things about that is exposure to many different development tools. We've always had at least one IDE and at least one non-IDE platform. It ebbs and flows.

Greg McKaskle