Why Give Open Bids to the Championship?

[Monty Python]

That's how FTC does it. To make it to the world championship you have to win a regional or the Inspire Award (there isn't even an Engineering Inspiration Award). The Inspire Award is the FTC equivalent of Chairman's. There are some teams that qualify almost every year (mostly the teams that qualify every year have excellent Inspire Award credentials). The competitiveness of FTC Champs is ramped up considerably from regionals without hurting the values of FIRST, so yes, I do think doing qualification on merit only would be a good idea.

[,4lex S.]

Does the Championship have room for 6 or 8 divisions? I never had a chance to go so I can't tell for sure, but this seems like it would solve the issue entriely.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by ,4lex S.

Does the Championship have room for 6 or 8 divisions? I never had a chance to go so I can't tell for sure, but this seems like it would solve the issue entriely.

I don't think there is room. You might get 8 fields onto the floor, but then FTC and FLL have to find a new place, and 8 fields worth of spectators need to find seating.

[Enigma's puzzle]

Originally Posted by EricH

I don't think there is room. You might get 8 fields onto the floor, but then FTC and FLL have to find a new place, and 8 fields worth of spectators need to find seating.

All that goes out the window next year, as the championship moves to St. Louis. That would be an interesting thought. 6 divisions, and then on Einstein they play everyone plays everyone once, and the two alliances with the most wins, and for tie breaks you look at the record against between the two. But i doubt the spacial gains will be that large seeing that both are football stadiums.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Enigma's puzzle

All that goes out the window next year, as the championship moves to St. Louis. That would be an interesting thought. 6 divisions, and then on Einstein they play everyone plays everyone once, and the two alliances with the most wins, and for tie breaks you look at the record against between the two. But i doubt the spacial gains will be that large seeing that both are football stadiums.

And the difference between two football stadiums is sideline space at best.

You *might* be able to get 6 divisions, if you moved FTC and FLL elsewhere. You **might** be able to get 8, if you brought in 2 more fields and played geometry games and roped off divisional seating. (Also: pulled the lower stands all the way back. You'll pay for that in reduced seating, though.)

There are places to put FTC and FLL. There's a theater in the America's Center that might have enough room for one of them. There's the America's Ballroom that might be able to handle one of them, with pits. The convention halls could probably handle the rest of the pits alongside the FRC pits. But it'd be a tight fit.

It's going to be a major PITA to figure that out, especially if you don't want complaints. I don't think they'll expand for a while yet.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Enigma's puzzle

All that goes out the window next year, as the championship moves to St. Louis. That would be an interesting thought. 6 divisions, and then on Einstein they play everyone plays everyone once, and the two alliances with the most wins, and for tie breaks you look at the record against between the two. But i doubt the spacial gains will be that large seeing that both are football stadiums.

That would be a lot less dramatic than a single elimination tournament, since you don't know how much each match you watch matters. If Einstein went to more than 4 but less than 8, there would have to be some change in game dynamic to accommodate it.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Monty Python

That's how FTC does it. To make it to the world championship you have to win a regional or the Inspire Award (there isn't even an Engineering Inspiration Award). The Inspire Award is the FTC equivalent of Chairman's. There are some teams that qualify almost every year (mostly the teams that qualify every year have excellent Inspire Award credentials). The competitiveness of FTC Champs is ramped up considerably from regionals without hurting the values of FIRST, so yes, I do think doing qualification on merit only would be a good idea.

This was one of the reasons I quit FTC, and my least favorite part of the program other than the Kit of Parts. In FTC, it's actually a lot worse. You have to be the Alliance Captain. Your Championship fate isn't determined by how good you are, but how good your qualifying schedule is. The first pick isn't guaranteed a spot, so you're SOL if you're the best robot at the competition and seeded 3rd because you had no partner one match.

If you make it qualification only, you have to make it more fair.

[Monty Python]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

This was one of the reasons I quit FTC, and my least favorite part of the program other than the Kit of Parts. In FTC, it's actually a lot worse. You have to be the Alliance Captain. Your Championship fate isn't determined by how good you are, but how good your qualifying schedule is. The first pick isn't guaranteed a spot, so you're SOL if you're the best robot at the competition and seeded 3rd because you had no partner one match.

If you make it qualification only, you have to make it more fair.

I would agree with that. The qualification process for FTC is screwed up, though I've never heard of a first pick not making it, and most second picks do go, but it's still really annoying and there are amazing robots every year that don't qualify. My point is more that a strict qualification process for FRC wouldn't destroy the values of FIRST, especially a fairer/better one.

[Nawaid Ladak]

for all those people talking about how every team should get a chance. ask FLL kids if they even know about the World Championships.

The fact FIRST is moving championships 2 weeks later is a good thing, But getting into/out of St. Louis is a much harder task (They aren't a hub for airlines like Atlanta was for Airtran/Delta) than one might think.

because Championship is two weeks later, i propose this program

A weighted system where:
40% of your total points would count on how many years your team has not attended championships,

40% of your total points would count on how your robot performed at the events it attended. if you attended more than one event. this amount would be the average of the events you attended. Things that would be considered in this category would include your ranking at the regional, your credentials for that ranking (seeding score, coopertition score, wins losses etc.), your performance in the elimination rounds, and the awards you won (each award would have it's own point value).

20% of your total points would count on your performance in previous years. the criteria for this would be the same as for the 40% category.

FIRST would be able to determine which teams qualify almost immediately if they keep the data up-to-date in their system. Teams would now have 3-4 weeks to plan their trip to Championships, and this would ensure we get teh best competition possible while giving every team a great chance to attend championships once every four years.

P.S. You would still get a automatic bid if you won your regional, or got Chairmans, EI or Rookie All-Star.

[Tetraman]

If I had the powers of saying how you get into Champs:

That year's Regional Chairmans win, Regional EI win, and Regional Rookie AllStar and Highest Rookie Seed win are Automatic Bids.
That year's Coopertition award winners get automatic bid.
That year's Judges award winners get automatic bids.
That year's Regional champs, disctrict champs, state champs are Automatic Bids.
Last year's Divisional Winners are automatic bids.
Charimans Award winning teams unable to win the Chairmans via the new rules because they have won Chairmans in the last 4 years, have automatic bids.
Last year's Rookie All Star Winner gets automatic bid.

Open spots are given via first come, first serve, with priority on teams with longest drought away from champs.