After Coming Back From The LA Regional: My Thoughts On FIRST

[davidthefat]

First of all, this is my very first year of doing any robotics clubs or anything. I noticed that FIRST is actually pretty lame overall. Its not very professional as they make it sound ("Gracious Professionalism") Sure I do see some graciousness, but I do not see the professionalism. Teams are willing to help and give stuff out, but in the end, their sole purpose is selfishness. All they want is points and reputation. It was more like a fashion show than an actual robot competition. All the teams were trying to advertise their team by wearing stupid costumes and decorating their pits. My school is not very rich, I know that the "richer" schools got a lot more funding than us, but I am not complaining about that. I seen some AMAZING robots this regional, unfortunately its the only regional we can attend, since we lack the funding. Well since our school is not very rich, our sports department lacks fancy uniforms and equipments. Since I am in Football and Track, I seen professionalism. We show professionalism by not talking with our mouths but the scoreboard. IDK, I think FIRST competition system is not the best system... In before flames. I am sure there are people out there with similar ideas...

[Chris is me]

Before this thread blows up, thanks for presenting your viewpoint with at least a touch of respect, and without calling out other teams for doing anything. I disagree with most of what you say, but I'm glad you made your point without giving people a reason to discount it immediately.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Before this thread blows up, thanks for presenting your viewpoint with at least a touch of respect, and without calling out other teams for doing anything. I disagree with most of what you say, but I'm glad you made your point without giving people a reason to discount it immediately.

Well I was hoping that the competition was soley based on points and stuff, all numbers, not people's opinions on our robots. I didn't like that fact that the judges did not judge on points but on the word of mouth of the teams. And for the finals, the teams chose teams, I think it should have been random teams out of the top 15 or something. Sometimes, Simple and clean is the best, not all fancy over the top stuff like I seen in alot of teams. just consistency and being good at what you do

[rcmolloy]

Many people are ignorant of the fact of what FIRST actually does. It was great that you showed your opinion but FIRST does A LOT for all of us. So what if your school can't go to many regionals. FIRST should be about the learning process that you go through not the competitions man. Even though you are on the football team and track team, are you going to persue those in your future? Embrace it if you want to it's your choice.

[sanddrag]

David,

I don't believe we've met, but as a resident of the Crescenta Valley, and a long time friend of that area's two teams (589 and 696), I find your view point disappointing. I'm sorry you have not had as great of a time as the rest of us are having. I'm interested in finding out which teams you believe are selifish, and are only in it for the points and reputation. Rather than posting here, please send me a Private Message with your thoughts, as perhaps I may be able to clear up some common misconceptions, or reaffirm some of your view-points (in private).

I agree that some of the customes, and music, and flair is often a bit silly. But, it's kids (and often adults) having fun, and that's what this is all about. Different teams will run their programs different ways, and there's nothing you can do to stop them, other than to run yours the way you see fit.

I'd like you to stick around and give FIRST (and your team) another chance, and you might surprise yourself.

Also, one last point. You'd be surprised to hear how little money some of the "good teams" actually have. As in, some of them never know whether there will be a subsequent year. And some of them have so little, that their mentors must make personal financial sacrifices so the team is able to continue functioning. Please do not make assumptions without knowing all the facts.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by rcmolloy

Many people are ignorant of the fact of what FIRST actually does. It was great that you showed your opinion but FIRST does A LOT for all of us. So what if your school can't go to many regionals. FIRST should be about the learning process that you go through not the competitions man. Even though you are on the football team and track team, are you going to persue those in your future? Embrace it if you want to it's your choice.

No I not bashing on FIRST but the whole competition not the company, IDK if you understand, you can love football but hate the BCS

[rcmolloy]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

No I not bashing on FIRST but the whole competition not the company, IDK if you understand, you can love football but hate the BCS

So you base things off of how the competitions are? Why do that? Competitions are where teams show off who they are and give every effort to help others. The games are there to have fun man. I know I have a blast every year with them and look forward to them every year. I don't know what you're seeing but FIRST offers so much fun!

[EricH]

FRC selections are like building your own football team.

I don't see that the competition is based on people's opinions; the only part that is is the alliance selection, and the better scouts know that the only thing that matters is what you do on the field. Unfortunately, due to human nature, insulting a scout will wind you up with a note about "Rude team. Use caution." (Not saying you did, just stating a general fact.)

Judges have their own system. It involves going around and looking at the robots. If they like what they see, they'll come and talk to the team. That's how the awards are given, and that's the way it's called out in the rules for the awards to be judged.

By the way, I wouldn't make such general comments about "all the teams" doing something if I were you. I know that a number of teams do not decorate their pits or wear costumes (and stupidity, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder). If you walked into your archrival's football training facility and started making comments like that, no matter how it was decorated, I would bet that you'd find out very quickly why football and track athletes talk with the scoreboard instead of their mouths. Quite a number of teams do decorate their pits, and that's fine by me--they're trying to attract the attention of the top 8. For the L.A. top 5 or so this year, it wouldn't have worked very well. Those teams tend to scout the field performance, and they do very well at that.

[MagiChau]

Sorry but I can not help but disagree with your opinion about "selfishness." People helping led you to think that everyone is selfish? I don't recall there being points for giving a team a needed part like a cRIO. Also, reputation is earned is it not? How do you expect teams to get reputation by not helping others? If they do you claim it is selfishness. Sorry, I just got a little angry at that opinion.

[Leav]

As a long time participant in FIRST, I can assure you that 99% of the stuff people do is genuine and sincere.

sure there are those who will do stuff for the pat on the back, but for the most part (read: 99% of the time) true FIRSTers do it [the right thing] because they're infected with the FIRST spirit .

you'll notice this when people are giving their opponents a hand before the next match, and when lending classmate batteries (or just whole classmates!) to other teams who are having trouble...

I'm not knocking you down for calling it as you see it (in fact: kudos for doing so!), but I think that if you stick with it you'll come to see that in FIRST, the unbelievable is true: people are actually selfishly helping other people!

regarding the whole parade/fashion show thing: yeah making a name for yourself is a big part of FIRST, as it is in many other sports. I see nothing wrong with this when it's done tastefully.

regarding professionalism: that's just up to you. being professional is a decision you can make. and frankly professional teams are those who command the most respect from me. seeing a team perform like a formula 1 (or NASCAR for you americans.. ) pit crew is always an inspiring site. it's up to you (and your team) to decide you want to strive for this, and if you want to you could try and spread this goal (being professional) throughout your regional.

again, kudos.
-Leav

[,4lex S.]

I don't know how your team functions or what your circumstances are, but for me, FRC was always much more than the competitions. 6 weeks of building a robot with people who became close friends and coming together as a team to accomplish difficult tasks, or to provide community service for the rest of the year were the key aspects of my experience.

Sometimes you may see things in FIRST that make you wonder how effective the system really is, but look at some of the teams. RAWC, 190, and 4 were all at your event, and are all very professional behaving teams (I don't know of many SoCal teams, so don't take this as a limit).

I don't know of many teams that aren't trying to post a solid score, that would be against the purpose of the competition. Most teams are gracious in helping others and cheer loudly for all that they have accomplished, but the professionalism shows clearly in the pit (most pits I have seen) where the team comes together in an organized fashion to prepare their robot to compete. I would never expect a driver to leave anything out of their effort either.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by EricH

FRC selections are like building your own football team.

I don't see that the competition is based on people's opinions; the only part that is is the alliance selection, and the better scouts know that the only thing that matters is what you do on the field. Unfortunately, due to human nature, insulting a scout will wind you up with a note about "Rude team. Use caution." (Not saying you did, just stating a general fact.)

Judges have their own system. It involves going around and looking at the robots. If they like what they see, they'll come and talk to the team. That's how the awards are given, and that's the way it's called out in the rules for the awards to be judged.

By the way, I wouldn't make such general comments about "all the teams" doing something if I were you. I know that a number of teams do not decorate their pits or wear costumes (and stupidity, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder). If you walked into your archrival's football training facility and started making comments like that, no matter how it was decorated, I would bet that you'd find out very quickly why football and track athletes talk with the scoreboard instead of their mouths. Quite a number of teams do decorate their pits, and that's fine by me--they're trying to attract the attention of the top 8. For the L.A. top 5 or so this year, it wouldn't have worked very well. Those teams tend to scout the field performance, and they do very well at that.

Team 330? You had a beast of a robot this year, but IDK, the announcer guy made it seem so unprofessional for me...Yea sure his job may be to entertain, but he was acting unprofessional IMHO... Do you see DARPA Grand Challenge announcers doing that? I think not

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Well I was hoping that the competition was soley based on points and stuff, all numbers, not people's opinions on our robots. I didn't like that fact that the judges did not judge on points but on the word of mouth of the teams. And for the finals, the teams chose teams, I think it should have been random teams out of the top 15 or something.

Two things.

In regard to the awards (which I believe you are referring to with the judges). First, if you read the disciption of the awards, most of them include the requirement of the team being able to communicate and explain how it works. Secondly, once you apply to colleges and then to jobs, being able to explain and market yourself is extremely important. They do not soley 'go by the numbers' (gpa, test scores...). Like everything in life, opinion matters. In this sense, the awards are actually very 'professional'.

In regards to alliance selection, I can understand how it seems silly to have the teams pick their partners. In the past, teams were paired up based on their rankings. But, picking your partners is a huge reward to those teams that were the best on Friday and Saturday morning. I think it would be silly not to reward those teams and do it randomly.

I urge you to give FIRST another try.

[EricH]

Does the DARPA Grand Challenge even have announcers?

And I believe that you are referring to the emcee, who's job is to fire up the crowd, much like a cheerleader at a football game. If you object to that, then I suggest that you float a proposition to disband any cheer squad you have at your high school.

Spoiler for :

[/satire]

[MagiChau]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Team 330? You had a beast of a robot this year, but IDK, the announcer guy made it seem so unprofessional for me...Yea sure his job may be to entertain, but he was acting unprofessional IMHO... Do you see DARPA Grand Challenge announcers doing that? I think not

I have not heard the announcer at this event but what do you exactly define as unprofessional from the person?