A Cinderella story?

[gvarndell]

Has it ever happened that a top seed at a regional used (some might say wasted) their picks to give 2 deserving (but not great performing) rookie teams a shot at Atlanta?
If so, did Cinderella get to go to the ball?

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by gvarndell

Has it ever happened that a top seed at a regional used (some might say wasted) their picks to give 2 deserving (but not great performing) rookie teams a shot at Atlanta?
If so, did Cinderella get to go to the ball?

That stuff happens all the time... As far as I know, the only times our team went into the regional finals was when we were like 48th place... but didnt get picked at like 13th place (A couple years ago)

[gvarndell]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

That stuff happens all the time...

I couldn't be happier to hear that such generosity might actually be common.
I would have thought rather rare.
But your team never went to the championships as a result?

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by gvarndell

I couldn't be happier to hear that such generosity might actually be common.
I would have thought rather rare.
But your team never went to the championships as a result?

Yea, but next year Its going to be different

[XaulZan11]

I think there is a communication break-down. The OP is talking about situations where teams picked teams that may not have had the best robot, so those teams could qualify for Atlanta. The first poster is talking about situations where teams picked the best robots, who happen to have ranked poorly. (Most teams will tell you that ranking has nothing to do with who they pick)

I can't think of any situation where a team would not select teams that they feel gives them the best chance of winning the event.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by gvarndell

But your team never went to the championships as a result?

It was the 2008 Los Angeles Regional. As the selections would have it, 330 and 1717 teamed up. 589, 207, and 1538 (not sure of captain) ran up against them in the quarters. Note that 330 was undefeated at Los Angeles that year.

David, 589 also made eliminations in 2006, with 294 and 362. They lost in a 3-match quarterfinal. Next year, we'll see what happens--I think you're already in next year in terms of experimentation and improvement...

[Chris is me]

I think it would be an insult to the teams selected to make pity picks, really. My opinion might change if there lacked open registration to the Championship.

[gvarndell]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

I think there is a communication break-down. The OP is talking about situations where teams picked teams that may not have had the best robot, so those teams could qualify for Atlanta. The first poster is talking about situations where teams picked the best robots, who happen to have ranked poorly. (Most teams will tell you that ranking has nothing to do with who they pick)

You are correct I think.
I didn't really get that the first reply didn't get what I was asking.

I can't think of any situation where a team would not select teams that they feel gives them the best chance of winning the event.

Sadly, that's what I figured.
But what if the team already had a ticket to championships and little left to prove other than proving they could be bigger than the event itself?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

You know that sometimes rookies make great robots and great teams. You should look at what comes out of the two Minnesota regionals. They know how to grow rookies up there, they come to play.

[dtengineering]

I'm going to talk about teams in general, rather than "rookie teams". As Al correctly points out... some rookies are pretty awesome.

The premise of the alliance selection process is that the top eight teams will scout out the top performing robots from amongst the field, and select the robots and teams that will best complement them in their quest to become event champions.

This is an important feature, as it compensates for the randomness of the qualifying rounds.

As much as one could perceive a top seeded team selecting weaker robots as a "kind gesture" to help provide them with the experience of a run through the elimination process and a chance to qualify for Atlanta, it also means that the top seed would be willfully selecting to NOT choose teams that through their wise design choices, hard work, and careful strategy and driving were perhaps more deserving of the reward of playing on Saturday afternoon.

I doubt the teams that were not selected, so that two poorer performing teams could "have a shot" would fully appreciate the intent of this choice.

That said, teams in the top eight get to choose their alliance partners however they darn well please. We have ranked as high as 12th and NOT been picked (as painful as that was, we did make it in, as the #1 replacement bot... our very first trip to the elims), and as low as 66th and HAVE been picked (because an alternative auto mode that we developed when our ball shooter broke down matched a top seed's auto mode... breaking down made us "better"). Ironically, both situations happened in back-to-back regionals for us.

I have also seen teams misread an alliance number and accidentally select a team they never really meant to pick. (Or have I just read about that on CD? My memory is going... it might just be an urban legend that I have incorporated in to my memory bank somehow.)

And I have seen teams pick alliance partners that made no sense to ME, at the time, but made perfect sense to them. Heck... I've seen that in Atlanta... and have to admit that the team made a pretty good choice regardless of what I initially thought.

I have also seen able teams left out of the elimination rounds because they failed to successfully promote their robot's abilities, and "weaker" robots make it in because the team successfully promoted a "niche" ability of their robot.

But I have never heard of a top seed intentionally selecting two alliance partners just because they "thought it would be nice to invite them into the elimination rounds". It might have happened... but while it would certainly be gracious to do it, I have to question how professional it would be.

But in the end... the picks are the top seed's choice to do with as they please.

Jason

[gvarndell]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

As Al correctly points out... some rookies are pretty awesome.

Yes indeed, we were bested by some of them at Buckeye.
I guess I over estimated the descriptive power of the word 'deserving' in my original post though and maybe shouldn't even have mentioned the word rookie.
I had in mind teams (rookie or not) that brought something more compelling than a robot with them, something that made them stand out in spite of a hapless robot.
I certainly was not talking about pity -- just the opposite -- I was talking about respecting teams for something other than their competitive prowess.
Thanks for your perspective though, you make good points -- it is, after all, a competition.
And thanks most for understanding what I was asking.

[JackG]

It's almost always the case that the high-scoring powerhouse teams seed at the top. Often, the top-seeded teams then like to select another big scorer with their first pick. But when the draft snakes back and the top alliances get to make their second pick, all the good scorers have been snatched up. That's where scouts and strategy crews decide what else they want if they can't have a second good scorer. For Overdrive, for instance, teams would often get picked just to run laps and rack up the 2 pointers. I can tell you that it gave a new lease on life to teams that couldn't hurdle. In Breakaway, the top pickers often opt for their second pick to try to shut down or harass the top scorers on the other alliance. This opens the door to many different teams fitting the criteria, and often many underdog and rookie teams get picked for that reason.

So basically, there's always hope for the lesser teams at every tournament. As long as Cinderella can do something well that the picking teams value, she can be going to the dance with the big boys.

[waialua359]

Yes, it does happen.
One of the last 5 robots not picked yet, gets to be with the #1 alliance in a regional with 28 teams.
And that team is going to Atlanta this year, as a result.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

I have also seen teams misread an alliance number and accidentally select a team they never really meant to pick. (Or have I just read about that on CD? My memory is going... it might just be an urban legend that I have incorporated in to my memory bank somehow.)

And I have seen teams pick alliance partners that made no sense to ME, at the time, but made perfect sense to them. Heck... I've seen that in Atlanta... and have to admit that the team made a pretty good choice regardless of what I initially thought.

I think Jason's comments are spot on.

I have thought "What are they thinking?!" during alliance selection only to be eliminated by that alliance. Funny how that works...

It seems that every year an Alliance Captain or two in New Hampshire will select a team that isn't at the event. I'm pretty sure 233 has been offered a spot in the BAE eliminations at least twice in recent years, impressive for a team that has never attended the regional!

In 2006 we were fortunate enough to end up an alliance captain and select the team (133) that mentored us in 2004. We wound up winning the event along with 1519 and qualifying for Atlanta. It was pretty special to both qualify for Atlanta with our mentoring team, but their robot certainly pulled its own weight!

[JamesBrown]

In 2006 at the Boston Regional 121 and 233 teamed up, they were both dominant scorers that year and it was pretty obvious they would win the regional. 121 could have picked any team to play defense and could have won easily, however they picked us, we won the regional, and went to Atlanta. The regional win and trip to the championships made it a lot easier to find new sponsors for the next year. 121 essentially saved 1568 from folding that year.