1114 vs. 469

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

Maybe he was referring to 341, who has won two regionals and appear to have a similar two roller ball magnet.

Whoops. I fixed it.

[Meredith Novak]

Originally Posted by Agentarrow

It saddens me that there is so much focus on us this year. It detracts from other teams that put just as much, or more effort into their robot than we did. They may have taken a more traditional approach, but these teams are all still innovative and creative with their robots. 33, 67, 148, & 217, just to name a few, should all be commended for having great robots, each as different as night and day. (Except 148 & 217, but that is beside the point. ) Even newer teams with only a couple years under their belts are doing well. 2612 seeded at both of their events and made it to the finals at Cass Tech. They have an amazing robot this year also.

Your post is very gracious and terribly sweet. But you should ENJOY your team's amazing accomplishment and all the attention. Congratulations!

[Swan217]

I know that this is gonna be a shocker to Karthik, but given the choice, I'd pick 1114 hands down. Why? 1114 defended can still score 10+ goals. If 469 gets successfully defended in autonomous, they are down for the count (which Killer Bees semi-successfully proved at Troy last weekend). With a deep enough field, such as Great Lakes or Atlanta, a serpentine pick could easily play defence against 469 and clear the middle zone of balls in the first minute. Once that happens, it doesn't matter if 469 locks in at that point, because two good scoring bots can have at it at that point, with that 3rd bot assisting from the middle. 1114 on the other hand, you'd have to defend all 135 seconds, and still get your robot run circles around.

For Great Lakes? Now that 33 has exploited the 469 weakness, I would take a high scoring pair over one high score + 469. Nobody has been talking about HOT, but they with 217 or 33 or 51 could run the board against any 469 combination. Championship? Look for a 16/33/51/1114 combination to beat the 217/469 pairing in Division Finals (Prediction - they'll mostly end up in the same division, other than 67)

[Nawaid Ladak]

Originally Posted by Dan Swando

I know that this is gonna be a shocker to Karthik, but given the choice, I'd pick 1114 hands down. Why? 1114 defended can still score 10+ goals. If 469 gets successfully defended in autonomous, they are down for the count (which Killer Bees semi-successfully proved at Troy last weekend). With a deep enough field, such as Great Lakes or Atlanta, a serpentine pick could easily play defence against 469 and clear the middle zone of balls in the first minute. Once that happens, it doesn't matter if 469 locks in at that point, because two good scoring bots can have at it at that point, with that 3rd bot assisting from the middle. 1114 on the other hand, you'd have to defend all 135 seconds, and still get your robot run circles around.

For Great Lakes? Now that 33 has exploited the 469 weakness, I would take a high scoring pair over one high score + 469. Nobody has been talking about HOT, but they with 217 or 33 or 51 could run the board against any 469 combination. Championship? Look for a 16/33/51/1114 combination to beat the 217/469 pairing in Division Finals (Prediction - they'll mostly end up in the same division, other than 67)

You also have to look at your last paragraph from both teams points of view. if 469 is picking and sees 67 is a better scorer than 217, Why would they pick 217 then? I also think the scorer would rather score exclusivly within their home zone instead of waiting for balls to come from the midzone. IMHO, you only have to watch the first 20 seconds of a match to decide which stratedgy your going to use. if 469/scorer get a 3rd pick that can play and harrass teams in all three zones and kick the ball away from teams (86 comes to mind). then that alliance will be in the finals.

for me personally, I would take 1114 easally in the qualifications, but i would take 469 just over 1114 in the eliminations. But I wold be glad with either in either situation.

[sashboy226]

Originally Posted by Nawaid Ladak

You also have to look at your last paragraph from both teams points of view. if 469 is picking and sees 67 is a better scorer than 217, Why would they pick 217 then? I also think the scorer would rather score exclusivly within their home zone instead of waiting for balls to come from the midzone. IMHO, you only have to watch the first 20 seconds of a match to decide which stratedgy your going to use. if 469/scorer get a 3rd pick that can play and harrass teams in all three zones and kick the ball away from teams (86 comes to mind). then that alliance will be in the finals.

for me personally, I would take 1114 easally in the qualifications, but i would take 469 just over 1114 in the eliminations. But I wold be glad with either in either situation.

469 would most likely pick 217 because they've done it in the past and won. At Troy 217 had issues the first day of competition and seeded fourth overall (behind 469, 33, and 226 in that order) and was still chosen by 469. Your thinking of Alliance selections as a far less political matter than they actually are. (Also, I'm a little disappointing our robot hasn't gotten a shout out yet, we beat 33 in a qualification match, but had three penalties which put them ahead by one point, then tied them 10-10 three matches later. 226 is definitely a contender this year.) The strategy 33 attempted at Troy with 910 will not take down a 469/217 power alliance. You would need two mid/far zone robots to be able to compete against 469 in eliminations.

[Grim Tuesday]

How do you know 217 wont be picking 469?
O____O

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by sashboy226

469 would most likely pick 217 because they've done it in the past and won. At Troy 217 had issues the first day of competition and seeded fourth overall (behind 469, 33, and 226 in that order) and was still chosen by 469. Your thinking of Alliance selections as a far less political matter than they actually are.

From what I know of 469, I'm positive they would pick the best robot available, whether it be 217, 67, 33 or anyone else. Frankly, I've found that alliance selections are far less political than many conspiracy theorists seem to believe.

[IBdrummer]

Originally Posted by Karthik

From what I know of 469, I'm positive they would pick the best robot available, whether it be 217, 67, 33 or anyone else. Frankly, I've found that alliance selections are far less political than many conspiracy theorists seem to believe.

I agree with Karthik that alliance selections are based off of the best robot available, but I also think team history can make a difference. Team reliability is one thing that can factor into alliance selections (from what I've seen, I'm not claiming this is what 469, 217, or 1114 do). Maybe some teams don't do it, but I know if I had two robots that preformed the same on the field and one of them was 217, I'd probably be more inclined to pick 217.

[BGiraud]

Not much love out there for east coast teams on your top bots lists? We had first hand experience with 1086 & 25 and you would be wise to have them on your radar.
Back on topic... There seem to be around a dozen teams worldwide that are clearly out performing the rest. That puts around 3-4 per division. Put 1114 and any other of the top bots on the same alliance and 469's alliance has a problem. 1114 can sit on defense and they are fast enough to break the cycle. Even if they don't break the cycle completely they will clear enough balls from the zone. Its 2v1 going the other way and 1114's partners will run up the score.
If I had a top bot and the first pick with both 1114 and 469 available, I think I would pick 1114. Truthfully, I might make the same choice with a top scorer other than 1114 as well. It is a tough choice for sure.

[KrazyCarl92]

I think it depends on the scarcity of the division you wind up in to determine what better picks are. If there are a dozen or so elite scorers that aren't making picks in a division, I'd pick 469 or a similar bot and take my chances with an elite scorer being left for the second pick. If there happen to be only a couple of elite scoring bots, it would depend on compatibility but I think it would generally be wiser to pick the elite scorers in the first round because there is no chance one would be left over in the next round.

[Lil' Lavery]

Until 71 is officially eliminated from the Championship elimination rounds, my money is one them. Always.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Until 71 is officially eliminated from the Championship elimination rounds, my money is one them. Always.

That made me think immediately of this scene.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Richard

That made me think immediately of this scene.

That picture doesn't do it justice. The video shows that sudden barrage at the beginning of the final period to the full extent. Never beat against the Beast.

[JesseK]

With how the MI States are going right now, I'd pick 67 over 469. I'm not sure what they do or how their robot works, but they're consistently averaging 15+ points regardless of who their partners are.

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by JesseK

With how the MI States are going right now, I'd pick 67 over 469. I'm not sure what they do or how their robot works, but they're consistently averaging 15+ points regardless of who their partners are.

I wouldn't say "regardless of who their partners are". They have had atleast one of 51, 469, 27, 1250, 2771, 70 in each of their matches. Those are some pretty good partners, and when great bots work together the scoring capability of each is increased tremendously (this is true for everyon as this is a teamwork game). Combine that with a great atmosphere for scoring like MI State qual (prob not going to see it topped till IRI) and the result is amazing. Heck they dont even have to worry about scoring for their opponents because they are doing fine on thier own. HOT has to go against NC Gears next, the winner could jump 469 to the #1 spot.