Update #20

[Mike Schreiber]

I was talking to a team that walked out of opening ceremonies after that announcement was made and was now much less nervous about their match against 469...I had to tell them it was an April Fool's joke...

[Andrew Schreiber]

Maybe this is just a grumpy old person speaking but I felt that even joking about this was inappropriate. 469 is putting up with a lot of flak this year. They have been called unfair, cheaters, and un-gp. They have endured constant discussion of how FIRST should make their 6 weeks of hard work illegal. They have been pretty good sports about it. You know what, they've been better than I would be. And better than most people I see on here would probably handle it.

It needs to stop.

469 took a risk. Just like in business, you can't profit unless you risk something. 469 is being rewarded for taking a tremendous risk.

In short, I am NOT amused by this joke at all. I think it is in bad taste and just generally disrespectful to a team that has wowed me ever since my first year in FRC.

[Rion Atkinson]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Maybe this is just a grumpy old person speaking but I felt that even joking about this was inappropriate. 469 is putting up with a lot of flak this year. They have been called unfair, cheaters, and un-gp. They have endured constant discussion of how FIRST should make their 6 weeks of hard work illegal. They have been pretty good sports about it. You know what, they've been better than I would be. And better than most people I see on here would probably handle it.

It needs to stop.

469 took a risk. Just like in business, you can't profit unless you risk something. 469 is being rewarded for taking a tremendous risk.

In short, I am NOT amused by this joke at all. I think it is in bad taste and just generally disrespectful to a team that has wowed me ever since my first year in FRC.

Maybe it is just me, but I find this very humorous. Yes, 469 made an AMAZING robot this year; I personally applaud them! I love the fact that they took the risk to make such an amazing robot. I know that if I was them, I would at the same way they have. Heck, I would just sit back and let people yell about me. What do I care? It's not like what they think really matters all that much.

Why can we not joke about that which is serious? I do, it always helps to lighten the mood.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Formerly Famous

Maybe it is just me, but I find this very humorous. Yes, 469 made an AMAZING robot this year; I personally applaud them! I love the fact that they took the risk to make such an amazing robot. I know that if I was them, I would at the same way they have. Heck, I would just sit back and let people yell about me. What do I care? It's not like what they think really matters all that much.

Why can we not joke about that which is serious? I do, it always helps to lighten the mood.

Simple, because EVERY year whatever teams that do well are belittled and insulted because they are successful. Personally I don't want my students getting the impression that being great means you will be picked on and insulted. Every year, lately it has been bashing 217 or 1114 or 67 or [team du jour] All these teams did was do well. Should we really be insulting them for it? I don't CARE how they react, I think by insulting them and hoping FIRST makes rules against them you are celebrating mediocrity and that is WRONG.

I know this was a joke, I know that FIRST hasn't bowed to public pressure. I am more concerned by the thought that we as a community have put these robots and this stupid little competition so high that we have forgotten what FIRST is about. It isn't about winning and losing, it is about showing students that STEM can be fun. Or, to say it as someone I know says about American FRC, "It is to make America play 20 years of catch up with the rest of the world" We do that by out of the box thinking, 469 EXEMPLIFIED that this year. Instead of being praised they are being called cheaters. That disgusts me.

[Akash Rastogi]

When I heard about this, I also felt it was a little bit in bad taste and a bit disrespectful to 469. As Andrew said, they've had to endure a lot of unwarranted criticism this season, they could have done without this "joke." Also, I'm pretty sure Andrew and I are thinking of the same person from 469 when we say that people on the team were insulted by this.

I too realize it was a joke, but 469 has been through enough this season. Cut them some slack.

+0.02

Edit: I commend 469 for being rock solid throughout this season by not caving into criticism. You guys rock.

[JackG]

The aspect of the joke that nobody has seemed to notice is that it pokes fun at the GDC and the uncertainty surrounding their decision making/ideas for Breakaway. They already made a radical change to the rules regarding seeding, so the plausibility of them making another big "update" to the rules with something like this adds to the humor. (And I feel remarkably stodgy analyzing a joke like this. . .)

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Simple, because EVERY year whatever teams that do well are belittled and insulted because they are successful. Personally I don't want my students getting the impression that being great means you will be picked on and insulted. Every year, lately it has been bashing 217 or 1114 or 67 or [team du jour] All these teams did was do well. Should we really be insulting them for it? I don't CARE how they react, I think by insulting them and hoping FIRST makes rules against them you are celebrating mediocrity and that is WRONG.

Andrew, nobody but you can make you feel insulted. The same goes for every single other person and team. This is an excellent opportunity for you to teach your students about having thick skin and not taking things personally. It's not just FIRST where successful teams take flack; look at how people hate Duke basketball or the New York Yankees. Instead of getting upset over some harmless humor, use this as a learning opportunity.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by JackG

Andrew, nobody but you can make you feel insulted. The same goes for every single other person and team. This is an excellent opportunity for you to teach your students about having thick skin and not taking things personally. It's not just FIRST where successful teams take flack; look at how people hate Duke basketball or the New York Yankees. Instead of getting upset over some harmless humor, use this as a learning opportunity.

When someone cheers because your robot design you spent 6 weeks building and 5 weeks tweaking has been made illegal let me know how you feel. Because that was what was done today.

[pschre]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

When someone cheers because your robot design you spent 6 weeks building and 5 weeks tweaking has been made illegal let me know how you feel. Because that was what was done today.

I think that crowd reaction to the joke is more indicative of the incorrect attitude that Andrew is pointing out, more so than the spirit of the joke itself. While I wasn't there, I wouldn't think that the MC/whoever hatched the April Fool's joke would put it out there publicly with the intent of inciting a mass negative reaction against 469 by people drinking that Haterade. As WWE commentator JBL used to say, borrowing football imagery, "If you don't want T.O. to dance in the end zone, don't let him score." I don't think that a mass cheer in response to that April Fool was an appropriate reaction at all. I would expect that reaction from, say, the aunts and uncles of team members in the bleachers who have a lack of understanding of the process and spirit of building a robot and competing, and who think it must be wrong that little Johnny's robot is getting owned out there.

For most of the last 9 seasons, do my kids look at the consistently rock-solid teams who have more professional engineer mentors than we have total people involved with our team with more than a hint of jealousy? Hell yeah they do. But I try to turn that into motivation for them, rather than permitting 9 years of bitterness to turn into learned helplessness and settling for, if not celebrating, mediocrity.

As far as what Jack said about having a thick skin, I do think that teams who have had rule changes, real non-fooling ones, added in subsequent years pretty apparently in reaction to some ingenious, highly advantageous thing they did, could and should wear it like a badge of honor. The same could be said for those few excellent teams who build a robot that plays the game so commandingly that they inspire haters. But, as you mentioned the Yankees, not everyone, especially high school kids, can be Jeter-like in their ability to withstand if not relish being hated by the opposing fans.

[JackG]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

When someone cheers because your robot design you spent 6 weeks building and 5 weeks tweaking has been made illegal let me know how you feel. Because that was what was done today.

You know how I'd feel about those people cheering? "What a bunch of jerks." You how I'd react if someone rigged a bucket of water to dump on me as an April Fools prank? "What a jerk." In either case, the best idea is to shrug it off. Having thick skin does not mean being insulted by one thing but not another. A big part of life is learning to roll with the punches (i.e. all of them), not roll with the little ones and get hurt by the big ones. Sure, the cheering when your robot has been declared illegal can be quite hurtful, but how you react to it is up to you. What an opportunity for maturity growth and building character!

Those individuals who cheered at 469's apparent misfortune were clearly acting in a distasteful fashion far removed from any semblance of gracious professionalism. But that does not mean we cannot make these kind of jokes. We cannot pussyfoot around around potentially sensitive topics or jokes because a few bad apples might sour the fun. FIRST is about changing the culture, for crying out loud! We can never completely eliminate those who belittle us and drag us down, but we can build ourselves up to deal with them.

pschre is absolutely right when he brought up that high schoolers are not exactly quite prepared to deal with derision and hate. But then again, we're in a competition where we have high schoolers, not professional engineers, build and program robots! We're asking a lot out of the students technically, and they grow and learn because of it. Simultaneously when we're asking students to live up to the standards of gracious professionalism, is it too much to ask them to grow and develop in other ways?

tl;dr version: Why silence the rude ones and naysayers when you could have the students learn to deal with them?

[peter1626]

This little april fools joke goes against every thing FIRST is about, gracious professionalism. Not only was the MC un-gp but everyone in the stands who cheered only because they knew that 469 was now illegal.

[quinxorin]

Personally, when I heard it, I didn't know to think whether it was good or bad.

Also, my team holds 469 in high regard; We don't insult you guys. I still thought the joke was funny though. I hadn't been April Fooled yet.

[Adam Freeman]

I agree with Andrew. When an April fool's joke is played, at the expense of a team with a controversial robot design, and the crowd is cheering that they have been made illegal....its not a funny joke.

If I had created "Update 20", I would let 469 know about it before hand, and played the joke for the rest of the competition.

Talking with 469 on the field, they had no idea this was coming.

Oh well, the team members on 469 are better sports than I would have been.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Adam Freeman

I agree with Andrew. When an April fool's joke is played, at the expense of a team with a controversial robot design, and the crowd is cheering that they have been made illegal....its not a funny joke.

If I had created "Update 20", I would let 469 know about it before hand, and played the joke for the rest of the competition.

Talking with 469 on the field, they had no idea this was coming.

Oh well, the team members on 469 are better sports than I would have been.

Oh, c'mon. You've never laughed at a joke about Tiger Woods? Or Blondes?

Please. Most jokes will have one group (or person) as the butt of the joke. Get over it, and get thicker skin.


To 469:
Consider this, These jokes (and all the talk about 'how to beat your robot' and 'making your robot illegal') are because when it comes to the elimination rounds THEY CAN'T BEAT YOU.

You have the most dominant robot (for elims) that I have seen in years. Kudos to your team. And everytime someone wants to make your robot illegal, and everytime someone says 'I think 469 can be beaten this way', remember that NOBODY is talking about their robot ... they are only talking about how to beat your machine. Again Kudos.

[ALTrammell818]

I agree that this was distasteful. However it would have been quit funny to see had they told 469 in advance.

On another note my head mentor told me when I walked into his physics classroom that we were going to states and already had a bus ready to take us. He said that some of the team and mentors had set up the pit the night before but I couldn't be contacted for one reason or another. I was jumping up and down when he said April Fools.

I then threatened to slash his tires .

Turns out we actually we were offered a spot last minute, but they turned it down due to having no time to prepare. Or so I've been told.

[synth3tk]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Oh, c'mon. You've never laughed at a joke about Tiger Woods? Or Blondes?

Please. Most jokes will have one group (or person) as the butt of the joke. Get over it, and get thicker skin.

^ This. x1000, this.

Trust me, I'd love for our team's robot to be so good that almost the entire FIRST/CD community wants to find a way to stop it. Yes, I think that the MC/volunteers should have talked to 469 first, so they wouldn't feel left out in the dark. But as to this being out-of-line, it's April 1, they've got a really strong robot, and it was down-right funny.