Update #20

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by ICanCountTo19

Tiger woods is in the room...Do you make a joke about his most recent life crisis?

On April fools day, Yes. As a public figure he's going to get this.

Originally Posted by ICanCountTo19

What separates FIRST from a high school sport is that FIRST students never boo, they never play to break another robot, they never cheat, and no one wants to win by a penalty.

FIRSTers are human. I doubt the above is 100% true (but I wish it were).

Originally Posted by ICanCountTo19

This year teams cheer whenever 469 gets a penalty, when they tip, when their is a practical joke that is hurtful to them.

and I've seen teams cheer for 469 when they are scoring 26-1 matches. A practical joke is just that, get over it.

Originally Posted by ICanCountTo19

I will be just as happy as anyone else when someone finally legitimately beats them in a clean match where there's no penalties and they aren't tipped. I will never cheer for a penalty nor a destructive style such as intentional tipping, which I have witnessed several times.

and I will be happy when they win Einstien. A joke is not destructive play and intentional tipping. I've never talked about destructive play nor tipping in this thread. Please refrain from putting words into my posts and strawman arguments, they are counterproductive and just plain wrong (IE: go back and reread my post).

Originally Posted by ICanCountTo19

469 has HAD a thick skin. But how much do you want to put them through? They are dominating to the point that teams are dropping the standards that separate FIRST students from normal students.

469 has had thick skin, and for that I applaud them. It's other people (like your posts) that I telling to get thicker skin. As I said before, 469 is one of the most domanant robots I've seen in the last few years, people will try and figure a way to beat them ... someone will eventually win, but not this year.

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by ICanCountTo19

This year teams cheer whenever 469 gets a penalty, when they tip, when their is a practical joke that is hurtful to them.

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second. Everyone, please remember that when a team wins a match by penalties on the other alliance, they're going to cheer - they won. Whether or not the penalties are on 469 or not, they're going to be cheering. So will all of their supporters, their brother or sister teams, and their friends. When one of the teams (it was a smaller robot - 1023, maybe?) succeeded in keeping 469 parallel to the ground in one of the elimination matches - the closest anyone really got to tipping that robot on a flat plane, because that match proved that 469 CANNOT tip in that fashion - I was one of the ones screaming "OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH" in the stands. The friends that I was sitting with were doing the same - all three of us wondering whether or not 469 would be out, if there were going to be penalties awarded, and what the eventual outcome would be. We weren't cheering for seeing them tipped, we were aghast at everything that was going on, and I know that it's impossible to distinguish things like that from the honest-to-goodness cheers. Just remember that not all noise that comes from the stands is necessarily cheering [:

What I was not a fan of was when 469 was trapped on a bump, and the entire arena cheered - it was very obvious that it was a cheer for 469 being knocked out of commission. There was another cheer when they were freed, but it wasn't nearly as loud (probably from their alliance and a few other teams).

[Mike Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

and I will be happy when they win Einstien. A joke is not destructive play and intentional tipping. I've never talked about destructive play nor tipping in this thread. Please refrain from putting words into my posts and strawman arguments, they are counterproductive and just plain wrong (IE: go back and reread my post).

That section was not referring to your post, that section was referring to FIRST in general and actions I've witnessed at competitions. I was simply stating all the crap they have had to put up with this year in addition to that joke. Please refrain from calling legitimate facts "just wrong". It happened.

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

469 has had thick skin, and for that I applaud them. It's other people (like your posts) that I telling to get thicker skin.

I'm sorry for standing up for a team who would receive too much flack if they were to defend themselves. I'm assuming being from NH that you have not personally talked to them about this subject (if I am wrong then I apologize) but it doesn't exactly feel good to know that almost no one wants you to win. It's hurtful when people cheer for 6 weeks of your hard work being deemed illegal. Or for your robot being taken out of commission on the bump as Karibou said. Perhaps not all noise is cheering, but there are cases where it is pretty obvious what people are yelling about.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by ICanCountTo19

That section was not referring to your post, that section was referring to FIRST in general and actions I've witnessed at competitions. I was simply stating all the crap they have had to put up with this year in addition to that joke. Please refrain from calling legitimate facts "just wrong". It happened.

Your quotes appeared to be a direct response to my posts, and a strawman argument against them.

From what I've seen on these forums, 469 has many followers/wellwishers. It's true that many, here, are trying to figure out how to beat 469 ... but the reason for that is that they are that good. 'nuff said there.

Originally Posted by ICanCountTo19

I'm sorry for standing up for a team who would receive too much flack if they were to defend themselves. I'm assuming being from NH that you have not personally talked to them about this subject (if I am wrong then I apologize) but it doesn't exactly feel good to know that almost no one wants you to win. It's hurtful when people cheer for 6 weeks of your hard work being deemed illegal. Or for your robot being taken out of commission on the bump as Karibou said. Perhaps not all noise is cheering, but there are cases where it is pretty obvious what people are yelling about.

It's true that I haven't spoken with them. That being said, I'm a fan of their robot, and their team. They have shown class throughout all of this and deserve every award they are getting. As I said "I'll see them on Einstien".

... and as far as robots being deemed illegal, well we know all about that up here in this neck of the woods (just ask team 190 ... and no one was cheering).