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#46
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
This thread should close with that last post. It can't get any better.
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#47
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
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First, I don't think that 469 "lawyered" their way into anything. The rules are the rules. Not only do the rules as initially published make their design legal, a clarification relatively early by FIRST reaffirmed the legality of their machine. Moreover, there are other machines that do similar things (albeit not as well). Is it the rules we are worried about or just the effectiveness of the implementation? Second, 469 is in no way the "most hated" team in FRC or anywhere else. Perhaps you are referring to the shouts of joy in the stands at MSC when 469 tipped over or had any sort of hiccup. If so, I think you are confusing relief that there may be SOME hope for us mortals with actual anger at the team. Do not confuse competitive reactions with actual dislike. Las Guerrillas was, is and will remain (God willing) one of the fixtures of the Michigan FIRST landscape. Their storied past and their fearsome robots as well as their efforts to advance FIRST in Michigan and around the country/world are legendary. Here's to Las Guerrillas. Well done, well done, well done. Joe J. Last edited by Joe Johnson : 05-04-2010 at 14:40. |
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#48
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
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Your other examples are good, but Galileo was pretty stacked last year at the top level. |
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#49
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
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I would say that is far from the truth. One of their mentors (Dan) provided us a lot of help trying to get our robot running. They, along with many other powerhouses, continuously help out other teams trying to get them working. For that the team as a whole will never be hated for all the help and inspiration they provide. They also help out with a lot of behind the scenes work needed to keep some events going. Would I have like to see them lose? Probably, but thats just the whole underdog. They built a wonderful robot and its amazing to watch. My hats off to them and I wish them the best. |
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#50
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
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33 is by far one of my favorite teams in FRC btw, and I think if they stepped out of Michigan, they would see a few gold medals of their own, very easily. Michigan is a scary thing to think about, they breed the world's best FRC teams out there. Other places that are in 2nd place (by a large margin) are IMO, Indiana, those crazy Canucks, and NJ ![]() |
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#51
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
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I suggest you take back your statement and stop bashing 469. They have an amazing machine which other teams considered building but were not successful. They are very smart in how they implemented it. Please watch what you say on this forum unless you are not here to make friends, and 469 has a lot of friends. |
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#52
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
I'm really upset that one of the only truly innovative robot / strategy combinations I've seen in FRC is seen as lawyering the rules by so many. Keeping up that thinking is why 99% of robots this year look exactly the same.
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#53
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
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Cass |
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#54
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
I think another state who is starting to rise in FRC domination would be Texas, they are not really on the same level as MI yet, but maybe soon...?
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#55
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
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I'm with the camp that believes the MI State Championship is more competitive than the divisions in Atlanta. The top tier is probably comparable, but the middle & bottom are much better in MI. |
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#56
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
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The MSC championships caliber is above the level of other regionals, and at the level of CMP but NOT above. The difference as noted is that there are a lot more teams at CMP then MSC. Many good teams wont make eliminations as it is close to a 3:4 chance of NOT making it. Its unfortunate, but that's how good (and a lot of) the top teams from everywhere, will make this true. Teams like 25, 71, 111, 254, 330, 968, 987, 1114, 1717, 2056, etc. could have easily been selected for eliminations at MSC and very possible that more than half the list could have been in the top 8 during the seeding matches. Last edited by waialua359 : 05-04-2010 at 16:23. |
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#57
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
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I guess the question is what defines a more competitive regional? |
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#58
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
I respectfully disagree. Michigan has MANY great teams and no other state comes even close, especially this season. I would rank California as the next best (in terms of #s).
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#59
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
California may have the next largest number of teams, but they also have more teams than Michigan. In that way, they may not be the second highest 'robot-quality per team' state. Also, with Michigan averaging 3 teams in the Einstein Finals since 2004, I don't think any other state or country (besides the US [duh]) really comes all too close. Of course, there's many ways to judge quality (i.e. Michigan, New York, and Ohio each have 2 CCAs), but in most respects there's little to no match.
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#60
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Re: Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???
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CA: 153 teams MI: 140 teams Even though it is hard to find on FIRST's Redesigned site the team/event map is still there You are correct that quantity does not equal quality. MI is definitely the top state and it is not even close. Really you need to compare MI to regions. Is MI better than the rest of the Midwest? Now that is a tougher question. Where do New England, Mid Atlantic, South East, South West, West, Canada and other counties fit in? It is really all a matter of opinion. Now as for the comparison to CMP. I believe that independent of divisions the top 96 (24*4) elim bots at CMP are on average better than the top 24 at MSC. This should make for better eliminations as the top tiers are deeper. Now throw in divisions and depending on the luck of the draw there pretty much will be at least 1 division that the the top 24 can be weaker than MSC. Divisions may also break pairings of outstanding individual teams (ie if you truly believe that 1918 & 469 or 67 & 217 is the best possible pairing it may not be possible at CMP but if it is can they can probably get a more accomplished 3rd bot). Now where MSC is far ahead of CMP is in the qualification rounds. The middle and lower tiers are higher quality bots at MSC. All of the 65 teams at MSC qualified based primarily on their robot performance in 2 district events. At CMP a max of 141 (3 * 43 regionals + 12 FIM) of ~ 348 teams qualified based their robot performance at a regional this year. The rest can get in based on awards, open registration, HOF, etc... which doesnt necessarily indicate robot performance. It is even less than 141 robot performance qualifiers because teams win multiple regionals. There is no way (points system) for teams to qualify on robot performance without winning a regional, leaving strong double finalists like 987 out. A good # of the teams at CMP dont have elim experience this year. This dilutes the talent in any given qualifier. The amazing qualifier matchups like at MSC will fewer and farther between at CMP. Also it seems the MI teams used good qualifier strategy, which lead to higher scoring, more exciting matches. Hopefully, a higher percentage of teams at CMP will employ good qual strategy than at some regionals. Fortunately, the new seeding system (post TU16 I think it is doing a great job of ranking the top bots high) and atleast one more match per team should result in much better CMP seeding than usual. In previous years, a surprise #1 in at least 1 division has been the norm. I'm definitely looking forward to CMP elims. Of course as usual the CMP & MSC competitive levels will be trumped by IRI ![]() |
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