The Divisions...

[Jared Russell]

Let each team "bid" on which division it wants to be a part of.

Then, assign teams based on their choices in a random order (which, assuming a roughly equal distribution of division selections, should result in most teams getting their wish). Alternatively, use some other metric for ordering the teams - a FiM-like points system, Regional Winners first, etc.

Why I like this system:
-Teams can talk amongst themselves (and on Chief Delphi) about their choices if they choose, so you will have a little bit of insight into who is going where ahead of time - much like when teams are picking what regionals to attend.

-There is still plenty of opportunity to play against teams from distant parts of the country/world.

-Over time, teams would come to associate with a particular division and a sense of history would develop naturally.

-A rough balance would naturally develop, as strong teams will maybe want to pursue other divisions if one starts to get "stacked" year after year.

-Teams can try and get a banner from each division (and I think that if you get one of each, your team should go into the Hall of Fame)

-Mentors/sponsors that support multiple teams could try and get them put with each other.

Possible downsides:
-It would require slightly more effort on FIRST's part to orchestrate this system.

-Powerhouse teams could coordinate bids to come up with "uber" alliances (though they then risk having to seed first/high enough to avoid playing against each other!)

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by waialua359

Jason,
I'm with you on this on. The only problem is that the divisions now weren't really random also.
I always joke with Mark from 358 that we never get a chance to be in the same division because of our no. and its not random.
Its also hard for us to be in the same division as 368 when the only consistent team between us attending is MOE.

Divisions were most likely random last year. That's probably why you don't see people monitoring/predicting them closely this year.

Last year, your luck was poor in being the same division as 368 and 358. Every team from 358 to 368 was in Newton except you (Galileo). Better luck this year!

[TKM.368]

Originally Posted by TKM.368

... serve as Division Captains for a draft.

After a little thought, I'm going to contradict myself here. A draft will involve great teams being picked first, but what about for those teams picked at the end? That'd be a pretty disheartening way to start off a Championship. I have a feeling a lot of kids on a lot of teams know what being picked last is like.

[Enigma's puzzle]

Originally Posted by The Lucas

Quick thoughts:
-You would have to start with the Original Teams and HOF teams since they qualify every year) and assign them to divisions. It would be good to have a mix of regions in these teams per division. These teams could act as division captains.
-Division Winners become a one year captains for their division.
-CA winners obviously become HOF teams and stay with their division.
-EI winner becomes a one year captain
-Some way to appoint permanent captians

-Each division captain submits an online draft list of their top 100 (arbitrary) registered teams to join their division that year.
-Computer program randomises a division draft order then randomises the captain order in each and assigns the top pick on that list. Moves to next division in the order (serpentine) makes a pick from a division captain in the that division. Repeats till a 100 (again arbitrary) teams are selected.
-Rest of the teams are randomly assigned
-This would probably even out the strength of the divisions in a decentralised manner, without anyone knowing who selected who or in what order.

-Captains are responsible for the pageantry and social events of their division. Division Hug anyone?

Issues:
-This is alot of power/responsibility for the captains, may make others feel left out. However this the only way to guarantee those teams will be there.
-Division winners need to be qualified for next year. (Should be that way anyway IMHO)
-Need other ways to appoint permanent captains
-Numbers of Captains in each division could become out of balance, as well as their regional alignment.
-Miss out on chances to be in division with different teams (anticipate that opposing captains will interact in friendly rivalries so that is perhaps better than being with them)

Thoughts?

What if the Divisional Captains were put in charge of freezing teams. There would be an number of alotted freezes, maybe equal to the number of HOF and Original teams. Each of these HOF and Original Teams make a selection of a team, that was in their division, to become FROZEN. Then the teams would be frozen for 4 or 5 years, depending how the numbers worked, and in the end of that time they are either let go, or reUped for another 4 or 5 years of service. All the left over teams would be added to round out the division.


I personally believe sorting geographically is an aweful idea, all the Michigan teams have already played at the state championship, and Canadian and Minnesota teams only have 2 regionals, so most of them have seen most of their neighbors already. However if they sorted the teams into geographic areas then distributed them into divisions evenly, so we got a great mix of teams from every area, fun would be had by all.

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by Enigma's puzzle

What if the Divisional Captains were put in charge of freezing teams. There would be an number of alotted freezes, maybe equal to the number of HOF and Original teams. Each of these HOF and Original Teams make a selection of a team, that was in their division, to become FROZEN. Then the teams would be frozen for 4 or 5 years, depending how the numbers worked, and in the end of that time they are either let go, or reUped for another 4 or 5 years of service. All the left over teams would be added to round out the division.

Good idea but I am concerned about the repercussions. Will teams have their feel like no one wants them if they are not FROZEN? There is already some animosity towards the "elite" teams (search CD if you dont believe me but it is not pretty) and this might make it worse.

The key to the Randomised Autopick draft in my first post no one knows (even the Captians, FIRST HQ etc...) who was picked and what order (but it still should even out the divisions strength among the non Captains and give the Captains some control). More teams will feel like they were picked than actually were. Since there are representatives from most regions in each Division teams, even lesser-known-nationally teams can believe they were noticed and picked. If you are often in the same division, then you believe your division really thinks highly of your team. If you bounce around divisions, then you believe the division captains are competing over your team. Overall, it really doesn't matter whether you were picked or not but it is nice to think you were

I want Division Captain role to be more about the pageantry than the power (figureheads ). Organise the HOF booths by division and have some space for the other Division Captains, this is your division HQ to display what makes your division great. Make college football style traveling trophies using the themes of your divisions for match-ups on Einstein. For example when Curie beat Archimedes on Einstein last year, wouldn't it have been better if afterwards the Archi captains presented Curie captains with The Radioactive Archimedes' Screw trophy (for the other match-up I am thinking about the Apple Telescope but it could be better). Right now few people even remember which divisions meet in Einstein Semis. If we had these trophies, Archi division would be thinking "We gotta get the Screw back from Curie!". Captains would also lead planning of social events for their divisions (this could turn into a mini competition of its own).

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by The Lucas

<snip> Make college football style traveling trophies using the themes of your divisions for match-ups on Einstein. For example when Curie beat Archimedes on Einstein last year, wouldn't it have been better if afterwards the Archi captains presented Curie captains with The Radioactive Archimedes' Screw trophy (for the other match-up I am thinking about the Apple Telescope but it could be better). Right now few people even remember which divisions meet in Einstein Semis. If we had these trophies, Archi division would be thinking "We gotta get the Screw back from Curie!". Captains would also lead planning of social events for their divisions (this could turn into a mini competition of its own).

Now THAT is what I'm TALKING ABOUT!!! That there is some 1st rate brain work.

I love the idea of divisional rivalry spurred on by a trophy. NICE!

What other ideas are out there?

Joe J.

[artdutra04]

A web-casted drafted selection process for the four divisions on Atlanta would be interesting, but I'm worried about the whiner squadron. They're the reason why we can't have nice things.

But let's say we can placate the whiners and anti-elitist/anti-powerhouse sentiments, and we're actually able to implement a drafting system. We'd need four "Chief Inspirers" to do the picking. But who could we choose? Would we want them to be FIRST leadership figures like Dean, Woodie? Or how about we randomly choose four Championship Woodie Flowers Award winners each year. Let's say the latter is chosen, and then let's have them do some kind of a challenge on the webcast, and the four winners get to be the Chief Inspirers.

Now that they get chosen, they make it into some kind of game show or similar venture where they get to make their division picks in rounds. Each round they get ten teams. Depending on how successful each Chief Inspirer is as their tasks, they get a set number of chosen picks and a set number of random picks. Let's say the "winner" of a challenge gets 8 chosen teams and 2 random teams; the 2nd place gets 6 chosen and 4 random, 3rd place gets 4 chosen and 6 random, and 4th gets 2 chosen and 8 random.

The challenge for each round is created by a specific Region of the country/world, with each Region having an identical number of teams. So you'll get the Midwest Challenge, the Canada Challenge, and New England Challenge, the Florida Challenge, etc. The order of the challenges would be randomized each year. The challenge should be something related to FRC and the specific region, and also something funny. Each region gets to select and vote on their Challenge each season prior to the drafting selection.

Because some challenges might not have a definite winner, there will be a judges panel. Let's say we get three of four other well known FIRSTers, plus Dave Lavery. Each of them gets a whiteboard for "feedback", not unlike the IRI talent show.

This goes through the eight rounds. If the initial selection of the Chief Inspirers takes six minutes, and each of the eight rounds take another six minutes, with a final six minute conclusion, that's a one-hour webcast program. If each round is cut to five minutes, then it allows for a brief commercial break between each round for sponsors who are sponsoring the Championship event.

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

<snip> but I'm worried about the whiner squadron. <snip>

I like the term Whiner Squadron. I think I am going to steal it.

I have an idea for how to determine the pickers at the Championships but it is a bit involved and I will have to craft the message with love and care I cannot commit during lunch. So...

...stay tuned for my evil genius plan. Muahahahahah!!!!

Joe J.

[Rob]

Ok I am going to throw some ideas out there. I know that some of these may have some big problems, but hopefully they can get more ideas flowing!

1) What if instead of registering for Champs, you were able to register for a division at champs?

2) How about doing something to tie in the division names to the team after-party on Saturday night?

3) (I'm going to get killed on this one...) What if each division had a slight nuance that varied the game rules (like the American League vs. the minor..eh National League)?

4) What if you play all your qual rounds against teams from your division but your elimination matchups are against other divisions?

5) How about some little side competitions between the divisions? Such as longest kick..quickest hang, etc. This is inspired by team 180 doing the "pull tests" back in 2002...

Just jumping outside the box for a bit...have fun!

Rob

[Chris Hibner]

Rob has some interesting ideas.

The old story from the University of Michigan football program under Bo Schembechler was that in order to provide some motivation to play hard in the spring game, the winners got to eat steak for the post game meal while the losers had to eat hot dogs.

What about something like that for the team party? All team members from the winning division gets one or more of the following at the party: a) better food, b) "fast passes" to jump the line at the games/rides, c) special seating, d) VIP entertainment, etc.

That won't help division history, but it will make people cheer more for their division to win while at the event.

[rulesall2]

I really like this idea, however the implication may get complicated... let's just see how this plays out.

Some suggestions:

1) What if teams attending could submit a form that had one(or any amount really) team they wanted to be in the same division with and why. This would be the basis for division formation. Then some sort of rule would make up who stays and who moves divisions for the following year. This would guarantee teams the ability to play against teams they don't normally see, but still have partnerships with. (ex. 2791 and 1726, etc.)

2) At the beginning of the first year, all veteran teams would be assigned a division based on some random algorithm that accounted for frequency of attendance of teams (to prevent imbalances). At the end of Week 5 once all teams have qualified, any imbalances would be accounted for with the non-permanent placement of the rookie qualifiers in the divisions. Each year afterwards, the teams that attended championships the previous year would remain in that division and teams that did not attend would be redistributed throughout the divisions, with rookie teams once again providing the balancing of the numbers.

Thoughts? (P.S. Great idea Joe.)

[TD78]

Originally Posted by Rob

4) What if you play all your qual rounds against teams from your division but your elimination matchups are against other divisions?

I find this one the most interesting. It would certainly spice things up!

[ExTexan]

What about something like that for the team party? All team members from the winning division gets one or more of the following at the party: a) better food, b) "fast passes" to jump the line at the games/rides, c) special seating, d) VIP entertainment, etc.

I like a lot! It is a fast build for division identity.

And you could even start earlier...Divisional rewards for high score on Thursday between divisions, most hanging points, 6 in auto....Gets the teams into a more divisional contest.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Chris Hibner

What about something like that for the team party? All team members from the winning division gets one or more of the following at the party: a) better food, b) "fast passes" to jump the line at the games/rides, c) special seating, d) VIP entertainment, etc.

That won't help division history, but it will make people cheer more for their division to win while at the event.

To expand upon this idea:

Perhaps the Division Winners get a $5000 Credit to be used towards registration or event entry fees the following year? Also, I think Division Winners should qualify for the following year's Championship and be placed in the same division they won to "Defend their Title".

Maybe the World Champions could get this $5000 and perks plus Free Entry to the following year's Championship?

Maybe the Championship Chairman's Winner could get the same as the World Champs plus a a reduced entry fee for all subsequent Championships?

If you created a system like this, I'm sure you'd see teams playing a hell of a lot harder in the Finals.

[Emily3204]

I think the alliance winners from each regional should be placed in the same division